/cog/ - Traditional & Video Gaming
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Argue about Steam in the Steam Thread Edition
~or~
E3 can't get here any faster Edition
Old thread >>193016
E3 2015 come for the exclusives, stay for jokes about Konami blowing its face off. Kinda hope Sony has something on this because according to the Del Toro the dream is fucking dead. Why does nobody want to let that man make a horror game?
Konami officially confirmed the cancellation of Silent Hills.
Fuck you, Konami.
Wait so Kojima's big split with Konami comes over use of the FOX engine and not the fact that he's one of the only competent game developers at the studio, yet they treat him like a tool?
Is it nationalist to say holy shit, Japanese game companies really fucking suck?
>>194508
At least their suckage is due to them being assholes, and not because of Japan's business culture.
>>194507
Not unless you're making the opposite statement and saying your homeland's companies are better than anyone else's.
>>194507
Well if the shitstorms over the Xkit guy on Tumblr mean anything, if you're American or even American-passing, anything negative you say about another country is automatically racist. Even if the thing you're complaining about includes literal genocide. Goddamnit Tumblr.
Platinum games is a Japanese company too isn't it? I think the newer ones are a lot savvier.
It all ends this Halloween.
Will you be ready for the final trip to Freddy’s?
>>194514
And brightened.
NIGHTMARE
http://bloody-disgusting.com/news/3341839/silent-hills-may-officially-cancelled/
Welp, it's official.
//youtube.com/watch?v=CINA288fZUs
So, is this a bunch of multiplayer mode footage (assuming they carry that forward from Origins) or are you, as Batman, constantly going to be shadowed by various AI sidekicks?
Also, man, Arkham Knight's identity really is kind of a mystery, huh? Batman doesn't have too many villains that could fund an army that haven't already been used in these games.
>>194515
>Freddy
>Nightmare
Is this going where I think it's going?
Replies:>>194531
>>194516
>>194520
3 could have been the end, chronologically, to the series. I believe there's still one location we haven't visited (the original pizza place, that was bought out and turned into Freddy Fazbear's Pizza), so it could be a pre/inter-quel. Since >>194514 is an image of a severely-deteriorated Freddy (crawling with little Freddies), this could take place between the original place shutting down and someone stumbling upon it (where the animatronics were left and the merchandise they sold also came to life.) Will be interesting to see how the little Freddies will change the game.
But more importantly I'm excited to see markiplier freak out at something new.
>We're going to remove the payment feature from the Skyrim workshop. For anyone who spent money on a mod, we'll be refunding you the complete amount. We talked to the team at Bethesda and they agree.
http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218
>>194527
Good.
Maybe they'll get it right next time. Something more in line with the uncertain nature of mods.
>>194527
I'm not 100% against the idea of monetizing mods depending on the precise nature and scope of said mods but they really, really, really aren't ready to implement this policy yet.
>>194523
Technically, there are two locations we haven’t see in the FNAF games yet: the original Fredbear's Diner and the "sister location" mentioned in the Phone Guy tapes in FNAF3. And Scott could forgo showing us those locations by showing us the fate of Springtrap after the fire that burned down Fazbear’s Frights.
In any case, we’ll have to wait until Scott decides to release the game (which could damn well happen before Halloween, all things considered). But just remember one thing about that Final Chapter designation: another famous horror series referred to its fourth installment as "The Final Chapter", too.
//youtube.com/watch?v=iMK-kajdgMA
Probably hyperbole, but man Japanese corporate culture is beyond fucked up.
Replies:>>194638
>>194536
I'm not being obvious with it.
I just have auto-backstab and a very, very small FOV for headshots. It's not exactly ruining fun, I'm not going Heavy/Sniper and just wiping everyone out: It just makes me on the level of any really competent player now.
>>194537
Time to go make some Mecha Space Cop magic. In movies and games.
>>194537
Its almost as if there is such a thing as investigative journalism!
Replies:>>194542
The Konami thing really is the worst case scenario. While they're getting out of the videogame business, the actual company is nowhere near failing, so the IPs they own won't be sold off and never ever see the light of day as videogames again. Castlevania pachislots still have valuable brand recognition after all.
>>194541
Damn shame though, I really wanted a Big Boss Figma or Figuarts. Guess we should be thankful Nintendo started as a games company and literally saved console gaming after the '80s crash so they still give a damn despite their missteps.
Though I can understand the heartbreak he probably feels after having been there most his life and developed games for them for them to suddenly turn on him and the people under him in his department. Maybe out of the ashes will rise Outer Heaven Productions. And we'll be treated to a new era of Cyberpunk and Mecha Combat games.
Replies:>>194552
Mighty No. 9 coming out digitally and physically on September 18th.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/28/mighty-no-9-release-date-announced?+main+twitter
Replies:>>194553
>>194514
>It all ends
That gravy train is never going to end as long as people rush to buy it in the hopes that they get views from screaming at it first on Youtube. He's going to keep this going on and on until it stops printing money.
As for Kojima and Konami going out of its way to out fuck-up Capcom as the King of Suicidal Japanese Game Companies, the man is going to be courted by every player in the field. As much as he can cost, EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Bethesda, Nintendo, Sony and even Microsoft would probably waste a small fortune in snagging him to a deal so long as he produces another MGS like successful franchise - if they all aren't getting out the knives and forks waiting for the Konami firesale of IP. Which, at this point, is a fucking blessing as I want another goddamn Suikoden. Konami can't die on the moblie only hill fast enough.
>>194543
Only bad part is that they're teaming up with Deep Silver. Oh boy, is that troubling news.
Replies:>>194557
>>194552
Scott never said 3 was going to be the last game, he just implied it. This isn't the 80's. It would actually hurt both sales and his reputation if he openly claimed so hard that this was the last game, and then made another one afterwards.
Replies:>>194557
He keeps going as long as he has story for it
>TF2
>f2p engi
>builds sentry
>keeps whacking it with wrench nonstop even with no metal
>calmly tell him to go get some metal if he wants to upgrade his sentry
>looks at me for 5 seconds
>ignores and keeps whacking sentry
What the FUCK is it with Engineer always being babby's first class and babby's first FPS experience? I hardly ever see an Engineer that even has a Gibus. It's always someone who either is too young to know what they're doing or literally starting playing an hour ago. I see dumbass F2Ps who run out with their gun and expect it to be like CoD, but never do I see them just stand there and do NOTHING but look around, unless it's an Engi.
>>194553
So like how supposedly embarrassed he will be when FNAF5 goes Jason X or Freddy in Hell when its announced next year? Listen, Scott is a fucking sweatshop that will keep working this thread until people forget about it. Nothing more shameless than any other video game sequel train and nothing less. If you like it, go ahead and buy it, but he's milking this shit whether or not you think its good. He isn't blind to the money he's making now that they apparently have a fucking movie deal in the works.
>>194554
What story? He knows damn well that apparently the millions of people that watch Smike's daily top ten whatever will see the goddamn riddle of steel in anything he could put out and intentionally leaves everything as vague as you can so the rumors keep milling. They're eager to overanalyze everything from anything at the drop of the hat and that's what keeps them coming back. Its just scary robotics and dead kids. That's it, that's all a good horror tale needs to be. An effective setting. There are no characters except the mascots and even they're just shit that screams at you. Everything else is a name of some security stiff you're theoretically playing as, fluff that will likely never be addressed such as the idenites of how many kids died where, voices Scott probably laughs at as he makes recordings of them or atari blobs that have no real names. Fans came up with Purple and Phone guy and that's how its stayed for now four titles.
As much as I don't like this franchise, the man knows what makes creatures like Pyramid Head iconic. Keep shit simple and let the fans obsess and scare themselves over what "really happened".
>>194557
>It's popular, so obviously he's a sellout and a filthy cash milking capitalist pig
You reek of /v/.
>>194557
You seem upset. If—IF—he makes FNAF5 despite declaring 4 as "The Final Chapter", so what? His fanbase and the market in general will decide if he deserves any sort of success by beating a reanimated animatronic dead horse. (I'm honestly surprised he hasn't considered that as a character yet.)
I bet some fans think 4 is already beating Corpsey the Horsey; I'm actually someone who thought 3 should’ve been the finalé, too. But if he can make a compelling-enough game and provide loads of answers to the few remaining questions of the storyline, I don't see what the big deal is. I mean, it’s not like anyone is forcing me to play the game/watch Letsplays of the game/read the FNAF wiki/talk about the franchise.
If you don’t like the series, all power to you—but don’t make other people feel bad about liking the series (for any reason). Talk about things you like instead of trying to tear down things you dislike; you'll do yourself a favor in the long run by taking that approach.
Worthless anger ain’t a good look, son.
>>194559
Not gonna play the games myself but I like seeming them played and watching them be clue hunted and dissected.
Replies:>>194568
>>194566
Same. I did buy FNAF during a sale and will likely buy 2/3/4 at some point to give Scott the money, but I'm not a fan of horror games in the least and will likely never play them myself.
>>194567
Yea I like to listen to LPs in the background while I work.
>>194566
I’m much the same way. (I wouldn't mind playing at least #1, but my years-old rig sucks ass, so no go on that.)
Replies:>>194581
>>194579
What the fuck is wrong with their noses? I really don't dig the direction Penny Arcade's art style has gone in.
>>194580
They decided to stop being so lazy with their art.
That means they have to add more minute details like freckles and flushed faces.
>>194582
It is, in fact, less lazy. It's also less appealing. But it is objectively more technically proficient.
Replies:>>194588
>>194584
You know, I don't really get that complaint. It's used a lot, yeah, but it's never looked that bad to me unless the art doesn't appeal to me overall.
>>194579
I thought Tycho was supposed to be a werewolf in the left panel or something because of his nose.
>>194585
I've seen otherwise-okay art ruined by Tumblr Nose (and those fucking rosy cheeks). That shit comes off like an artist is expressing their personal clown fetish.
Replies:>>194596
>>194588
I just don't see it.
To me it just looks like they're echoing the styles and trends of 50's Americana youth to make shit cute and quaint.
>>194588
There's an actual artistic use for it, stone. Its replicated by young, amateur artists frequently (which is associated with tumblr for because whatever i guess) because it makes for a generally appealing image. Its up there with the big eyes, large forehead and such of features.
Its the reason the character designs in My Little Pony hit that home run more than any earlier attempt.
That said, anyone who knows or is educated about actual illustration (not just cartooning or on a very loose self-teaching plan) will tell you why that is:
On the basest level, it makes for a more varied design in terms of colour. It allows the face to have some sense of visual variety and volume as to not make it so monotone and one-note.
There's also the fact that in reality, its also taught in painting - the face has a concentration of blood in the middle area: cheeks, ears and nose. The first cases you see of that usage of 'red nose' is a stylization of said colouring theory.
There's also the fact that in general, it lends a face a more tangible appearance. Its not even completely based in colour, either. There's cases like with say, Faith Erink Hicks where its used to, again, give a face something more than just features, and in some instances, these 'garnishes' make things like eyes or expressions pop out all the more, even in black and white.
And as you can see here its done for that exact reason in this page from Appleseed by Masamune Shirow.
In the end, its not that it isn't overused. Its up there with the anime eyes and the triangle mouth for younger artists in terms of misunderstood usage. But there is a reason for it other than a cold climate, and the key of the matter is understanding why its done, and being able to identify an educated artist using it to express style and visual competency.
and man, Gabe is a really fuckin talented illustrator. but sometimes I think his heart is just not that into it anymore.
Replies:>>194594
>>194592
>it makes for a generally appealing image
Maybe for some people. But does this pic really look “generally appealing”?
I get that there’s an actual artistic use for it. I’m aware that, in specific instances, it actually does aid and enhance a design. But Tumblr Nose is often applied without that purpose in mind; I’ve seen it used on fanart of Korra, and she sure as hell doesn’t need Tumblr Nose to enhance her design.
(And it gets associated with Tumblr because Tumblr is the current “big site” for amateur artists to share their work. And since amateur artists tend to ape techniques without regard for their actual purpose…well, you get the point.)
I’m not against the usage of Tumblr Nose when it’s necessary/useful to enhance a design. But this pic and that Penny Arcade strip doesn’t need it.
>>194593
>In the end, its not that it isn't overused. Its up there with the anime eyes and the triangle mouth for younger artists in terms of misunderstood usage. But there is a reason for it other than a cold climate, and the key of the matter is understanding why its done, and being able to identify an educated artist using it to express style and visual competency.
Replies:>>194598
>>194592
>Its replicated by young, amateur artists frequently (which is associated with tumblr for because whatever i guess) because it makes for a generally appealing image.
>generally appealing image
Seriously? Also if Appleseed qualifies as Tumblr nose, I counter it with the noses in part 4/5/6 of Jojo. A lot of people (including me) cite it as the least appealing element of the art style, and it getting dropped marks one of the aspects in which Steel Ball Run's art really picks up.
Replies:>>194598
>>194589
It's fine when it's used to represent blush or more blood flow at the nose. But I've seen art where the character has normal skin tones that exist naturally in humans, and then their nose alone is bright #FF0000 red.
>>194595
Ye, babe. Seriously. Look up 'character appeal'. Its one of the main tennants in animated characters but given the interchangeable nature of art education subjects its used in other media.
Also its almost as if you didnt look at the picture.
>>194596
Its almost as if stylization was a thing. Honestly, if I didn't know any better I'd say you're not an artist!
you dont like how some amateurs use it. thats fine. They don't know how to pull off stylization 90% of the time. Fuck a doodle doo. Its almost as if art in general was easy to fuck up!
Replies:>>194606
>>194598
Stop getting so buttblasted. The second post was basically reiterating the same point as you but without the passive-aggressiveness.
Replies:>>194602
>>194598
Considering the pics you just posted are within the realm of plausible human skintones, and the color isn't isolated in a way that makes it look like the result of facepaint, I don't think that art qualifies. What other people here are describing as Tumblr nose is specifically the use of it in bad ways (like that Penny Arcade comic). Nobody is saying that red noses always look bad. That claim is equally as fallacious as the claim that it's used because it always looks good or is generally appealing.
Also holy shit you are taking this way too seriously.
>>194581
Really? The proportions on their faces seem sloppier or less consistent compared to several years back where the heads had more consistent proportions and structure. It might be a willful stylistic choice, but the result gives the impression of looking lazier as a result, even if it's not.
Replies:>>194603
>>194600
>Also holy shit you are taking this way too seriously.
Because as much as you are pretending like this is not a case of "always looking bad," things like "Tumblr nose" are used by self-appointed gatekeepers to marginalize artists without actually applying any sort of critical thinking to what they're looking at. The fact that you personally might apply critical thinking to a piece of art doesn't change the fact that imageboard culture, as a whole, is simplistic, tribalistic, and based on behaviors that will get you attention rather than on any actual critical thinking, and that means that memes like "Tumblr nose" are used as tribal identifiers about who does and does not deserve consideration.
This shit is important to artists. When you oversimplify or try to apply "rules" to art that are not based on any actual understanding of art, you may think you're only insulting one particular artist, but you're making an assault on all artists. Those of us who are arguing this right now may not even particularly like Gabe or his art style, but when you start extrapolating stupid rules of art based on poor understandings of the work of one or two people, or of a lot of amateurs, you hurt artistic development as a whole. And that is something that people who dedicate themselves to art take seriously, even if you don't.
>>194602
Maybe on 4Chan or whatever, but here even the people who are complaining about it usually qualify their statements first so I don't see what the big fuss about.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/30/spiritual-successor-to-banjo-kazooie-reveals-its-lead-characters
Time to get hype?
>>194599
>buttblasted
I'm flashing back to so many commissions in 2013. Seriously though, its art talk. I could go on all day about colour theory alone.
>>194605
Honestly, I'm anticipating the soundtrack for this even more. If it captures at all the spirit of the Banjo games I'll be 100% down with this. Love the direction it has so far and I'm SO there for the KS.
>>194605
Yooka the chameleon is pretty cute but Laylee looks kind of like a derpy Stitch clone with that dumb nose.
>>194605
Mite be cool. Should be fi-
>kickstarter
Yeah, no thank you.
>>194608
this.
what the hell, are executives too poor to pay the devs or something?
Replies:>>194612
>>194609
I thought this group went off and did their own thing, so no real funding yet.
>>194605
Looks fun, I'm glad that's still in the works. Speaking of games by ex-Rare employees, anyone here play Tengami? I've been thinking of figuring out how to move my Wii shop points over to the WiiU to try and use those to buy it. Are Wii shop points even usable in the new store, or did it change to a different system?
Replies:>>194618
>>194605
I'm cautiously extremely hyped.
Having the people is great.
Finding people who know how to handle the money seems to be a rarity.
>>194615
>Finding people who know how to handle the money seems to be a rarity.
The thing is, situations like Broken Age where developing costs are underestimated is common in the gaming industry. You don't hear about it because publishers have no reason to share it to the public. Developers who use Kickstarter, however, owe it to their backers.
Bioshock Infinite's budget became bloated over the years, but we didn't hear about that until the developer shut down, over the game's disappointing performance. (http://www.polygon.com/2014/3/6/5474722/why-did-irrational-close-bioshock-infinite).
There's no science to guaranteeing how much a game will cost. And it's asinine to hear so many act like they know the practice themselves.
>>194618
I think part of that is when they have so many ideas and not a clear vision. Infinite was one of those. Starting to develop as one kinda game, get distracted by one bit and then start rebuilding it into another type of game which takes money and time (more money) to realize that vision and shape it.
Replies:>>194622
>>194618
>Bioshock Infinite's budget became bloated over the years, but we didn't hear about that until the developer shut down, over the game's disappointing performance. (http://www.polygon.com/2014/3/6/5474722/why-did-irrational-close-bioshock-infinite).
Though as a tester for a port, having to pour over every inch of that game for 6 months and comparing it to the trailers and cut content in my breaks, it was pretty clear to me they made a lot of resets. I am not a stranger to inflated projects.
Designers like Levine have a poor sense of reasonable scope. Some developers just get too obsessed with their vision and fall outside of their means.
Just because it happens often does not make it okay. If anything, it's a big problem.
>>194620
It is, its something being talked about in the movie stuff with everyone wanting to try and be the "next marvel" Good game series come from clear scope and with a steady hand on the rudder guiding it all through.
This can and a few times is mucked up by the Publisher who after the first success wants it bigger and better the next time with all kinds of new things. Which can lead the developer to lose focus and start cramming in unnecessary bits and make a bit mess because a lot of those parts need to be babysat since they are unproven which means less time for actually developing what made things work well the first time.
honestly i think the rare guys probably have it under control
Replies:>>194625
The problem with budgeting for video games is that making a video game is an iterative and holistic process. You have to build something before you can see if it works. Sometimes what seems like a good idea in your head will turn out to be impossible, or completely impractical, when actually put into action. That's not something that happens very often in other media; when you're making a movie, for example, if you get to the shoot and it turns out that the actor's performance isn't selling the scene like you thought, or one of the camera tricks you wanted to try doesn't work the way you thought it would, you just go back one level of planing and tweak things. It's extremely rare that a scene won't work to the extent that it requires you to throw out almost everything you have so far and start over completely.
But for video games, because there's really no way to know how well a system works until the entire game is assembled, that happens all the time. Well, you don't usually have to throw it out completely, there's usually something you can salvage, but extricating that safely from the stuff its built on and around is time-intensive on its own.
Budgeting video games is hard. And it's always been hard, it's just usually been hidden from us until recently.
>>194624
A major problem with it is developers and publishers often make huge sweeping changes when they feel something needs to be different without considering how deeply it will impact the budget or worse yet, the feel of the game as a whole, which often comes with even more changes. I've seen it happen dozens of times before.
Yes, there's instances where you can't be sure if something will work, but you shouldn't spend time constructing an entire process before you can accurately test it, and you shouldn't throw away a process because it doesn't match your vision or story to a T. Especially if your vision or story changes every 1-2 months.
It would be a great boon if many developers could set a practical vision, stick to it, and have the strength to cut out the parts that can't work before they eat up your development time. Budgets like this can't be 100% accurate, and I'm not saying they won't encounter unforeseeable and costly errors, but they sure as hell can be better adhered to.
Replies:>>194646
Optimism rising.
Replies:>>194630
Oh hey they've got it all worked out. Will the music be done by the one we hope?
>>194628
>Yooka-Laylee will feature a truly mouth-watering (ear-leaking?) soundtrack created in collaboration by three of gaming’s greatest composers, the legendary David Wise (Donkey Kong Country, Diddy Kong Racing), equally esteemed Banjo-Kazooie composer Grant Kirkhope (Viva Piñata, GoldenEye 007) and Banjo and Conker sound effects supremo Steve Burke (Kameo: Elements of Power).
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/playtonic/yooka-laylee-a-3d-platformer-rare-vival?ref=category_featured
>>194630
Holy shit, that trio. I'm impressed.
>>194630
>David Wise (Donkey Kong Country)
>Yes, we employ the man responsible for DK64's myriad of trinkets, but we've had a stern word.
Yey.
Replies:>>194646
//youtube.com/watch?v=fY_otBmc6po
BANJO-KAZOOIE AS FUCK
>>194633
Here's hoping it doesn't turn into another Broken Age.
I mean, I understand that Broken Age as a whole is considered good, but boy was getting there a struggle.
>>194538
It makes you on the level of a fleck of excrement on the ass of a competent player. If your therapy is cheating, feeling accomplished for things you didn't earn, and impeding on those who are legitimately improving, consider suicide thoroughly.
Replies:>>194643
I'm wondering if the new game will innovate from Banjo-Kazooie in any major way. Most of the stretch goals sound like they're offering the same things the original games + DK64 did.
>>194641
I'm sure they have their fair share of surprises that are already part of it, but you should definitely expect the core gameplay to be like a classic 3D platformer.
>>194647
$5300 dollar backer tier, I'm guessing.
Replies:>>194655
So! Funny story. Scott Cawthon put a bunch of 8s and 7s into his site's code when he posted the teaser for FNAF4. Fans of the games put the numbers (in order) into Google Maps...and got the coordinates for an actual goddamn pizzeria. They flooded the place with calls until several FNAF fans on Reddit cleared up rumors that the pizzeria had an actual connection to the games (it didn't). Scott himself made his first post on Reddit to deconfirm the rumors (and later removed the 8s and 7s from his site's code).
But on the bright side of things, the pizzeria didn't hold a grudge: http://www.reddit.com/r/fivenightsatfreddys/comments/34g2n1/the_real_freddysjk/
>>194654
That's hilarious and awesome that the manager had a sense of humor about it instead of acting like an asshole.
>>194652
>Jontron makes a cameo in the game
This needs to happen.
Bats and Chameleons > Bears and Birds.
Replies:>>194666
>>194605
You'd think Rare or Capcom would copyright their character concepts so that nobody could make obvious ripoffs like this. I mean ex-Rare devs or not, a ripoff is a ripoff.
>>194665
Copyright doesn't protect mere concepts. Just Intellectual Properties. They can't make Megaman or Banjo Kazooie, but anyone can make whatever they want and sell it.
Its up to the market to decide if it makes money. And the market clearly wants it, so no reason to get corporate on us, anon.
>>194559
If I was mad than why do you care you try to find a reason to defend liking it instead of doing it anyway despite what I typed? All I'm saying is the man has a gold mine and he's working it, speaking as an outsider looking in. I'm also taking into account how quickly he's squeezed them out before and the likelihood of how he'll do it again as if there's anything that will keep making sequels, prequels and reboots, its horror. The only one that seems to be "mad" at how plausible my idea is - well, it seems to be you and the guy that screamed /v/ because I saw his model a business.
Y'know, because he could have just have easily started work on another type of game instead of put out 4 games in the span of about a year. Just Saiyan.
As for Yuka, I'm expecting Microsoft to hastily hobble together a Banjo Kazooie game by E3 in retaliation to this. They are, after all, desperate enough to make Holo "augmented reality" lens to appear like they can play with Sony, Google and every other company's VR fad item.
>>194667
>They are, after all, desperate enough to make Holo "augmented reality" lens
Damn it, for a second I thought you meant they're making the next Halo hololens compatible and got excited at the idea.
>>194630
>GK rap written by Grant Kirkhope
all of my money
Replies:>>194675
>>194667
>As for Yuka, I'm expecting Microsoft to hastily hobble together a Banjo Kazooie game by E3 in retaliation to this.
The same way Capcom scrambled together to make a new Megaman after M9 got announced. Yep.
Who cares? If they do, great. More fuckin games.
Replies:>>194680
How can anyone play FPS with a fucking gamepad? That shit is straight-up fucking unplayable.
>>194671
>As for Yuka, I'm expecting Microsoft to hastily hobble together a Banjo Kazooie game by E3 in retaliation to this.
It's been rumored for a while now. Especially when Phil Spencer has talked about reviving Rare IPs from the past.
There's also no reason to retaliate, since the game is coming to Xbox One anyway.
>>194675
>There's also no reason to retaliate
Oh like that would stop Microsoft.
Replies:>>194678
>>194675
>reviving Rare IPs from the past.
I'd be surprised if they did a new BK before Battle Toads. What with the coy little cameos they've been littering around.
>>194677
That Shovel Knight bonus content is amazing, BTW.
What I don't get is why bringing back old IP is seen as the only option other than Kinect Sports games. Rare's old IP was a hit when it was new thanks in part to the charmingly distinct characters it had, but all they've made recently is some sports mascots that don't really seem prominent enough to justify a purchase.
>>194673
>Ukuleles > Banjos
But they're so quaint together.
//youtube.com/watch?v=mG4Eni3P-1w
>>194679
A new IP, especially in the AAA gaming realm, is a hugely risky endeavour these days.
>>194681
Thankfully I don't consider DK,BK and now YL stuff to be that close to AAA
Replies:>>194684
HOLY SHIT, EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Every former Rare employee has a DISGUSTINGLY embarrassing story about Microsoft's mismanagement of their talents.
I haven't heard anything this saddening coming out of the industry since "Team Silent broken up and relegated to mobile games."
Replies:>>194687
YL is also a new ip in only the loosest sense really.
>>194685
I think you don't know how IPs work. It is a new IP legally speaking, which is important.
>>194692
That joke was so bad, even Carlos Mencia wouldn't steal it.
Replies:>>194695
>>194687
You misunderstood what I mean. People talking about how it's a big risk because it's a new IP are ridiculous. It's not some out of left field unknown, it's banjo and Kazooie kickstarted by some Rare people. That's the least risky thing in the world and there's nothing new about it but the name.
Replies:>>194696
>>194694
What's risky in your opinion, then? Gone Home? Life is Strange? Pokemon?
Everything is derivative of something.
Replies:>>194698
>>194695
Yes, yes, and when it first came out yes. But this is more like Pokemon now, it's not derivative of something it just is that thing, and as a kickstarter it's just asking the people who've been asking for one of that thing for ages if they'd like one.
I mean it's cool you can get one but don't pretend there's a major risk to it.
Replies:>>194700
>>194696
>but don't pretend there's a major risk to it.
something im sure everyone was doing
>>194679
The people that work there now are not the people that worked there then.
Replies:>>194701
SO HOW ABOUT THOSE VIDEOGAMES.
OH NO NOTCH IS BLOCKING PEOPLE BECAUSE MICROSOFT.
MARIO KART DS IS STILL THE BEST GAME OF ALL TIME.
ANYTHING.
>>194703
There's no argument or point to pursue. At this point it's just bickering.
Let's get back to discussing what's actually relevant.
Replies:>>194715
SEGA's downward spiral into its ultimate demise continues:
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/05/04/sega-will-not-have-its-own-booth-at-e3-2015.aspx
>>194714
Konami is following the same path that SegaSammy took: Sammy does booku bucks in Pachinko machines, and the merger with Sega just took some of the characters to use in that. The video game sector of SegaSammy has been a continually smaller part of the overall business, likely thanks to a lot of SEGA's missteps. So it wouldn't be surprising if SEGA just drops out of games completely except for cheap mobile games.
Unfortunately, like Konami, it's a worst-outcome situation: They would still hold all of their properties, and likely would not license them out (especially after Sonic Boom). If we're lucky they'll let existing licenses renew in perpetuity as long as they don't tarnish the brand and are easy money.
http://swordorwhip.com/
Whip. The correct answer is whip.
>>194719
Why not both?
>>194719
I'll take both magic and rings.
Replies:>>194728
>>194727
Ok, so my post jumped to a different thread... Interesting.
I think I finally figured out why I haven't been able to get through my massive Steam backlog. It's not because of me getting older and disinterested in games, it's the PC environment in general.
On a console, sitting on a couch in front of a big screen tv, I'm so immersed I can play for hours and hours on end. But on PC, I can only play for an hour at a time before I get the urge to do something else. After hooking up my TV as a separate monitor and using Big Picture Mode, I've been cruising through my backlog.
>>194729
Its why I had to get tablets for work. Its too easy to find other stuff to do on a PC rather than
Konami is making sure that everyone still hates them.
http://kotaku.com/kojimas-pt-eradicated-from-psn-cant-even-be-re-downloa-1702464340
Capcom's decline has been slow and painful, but it almost seems like Konami went to hell in a hand basket overnight.
>>194744
That's what happens when you cut off your strongest part.
It's honestly baffling.
>>194744
Capcom has slowly been getting better though, if DMC4 SE is any indication.
Replies:>>194751
>>194748
It's been a while since Konami put out something great and they've churned out some terrible stuff, but Silent Hills looked like it might have turned things around. The one-two punch of losing Kojima and Silent Hills in such a short span of time have really soured the company's image, possibly beyond repair.
>>194729
Huh, I should give that a try. I know I have more than a few Steam titles that would be find with a controller, and I'm hoping to make a new HTPC here soon...
Replies:>>194752
>>194749
Thing is they are gearing themselves to just not care. They get money from gambling and health clubs that equals their Digital gaming with less costs. Only person that gave a damn is the one that devoted about thirty years of their life to the company and is now walking away.
I can't imagine how much this hurts Kojima to see the company that grew with him turn on him in such a way.
>>194751
I'm not too worried about him. He'll get hired at any place he applies.
It's just a shame that all those Konami and old Hudson properties are basically locked away for who knows how long, delegated to japan only pachinko machines and maybe the occasional mobile game if development is cheap enough. Then again, I'm probably looking at it from a worst case scenario. If they really where stepping away from videogames, it would do better for them to just auction the properties.
Fresh from /v/. The filename says it all.
Replies:>>194761
>>194752
But then they couldn't bank on the Kitch Nostalgia of a theme Pachinko or Health Club.
Replies:>>194756
>>194752
>I'm not too worried about him. He'll get hired at any place he applies.
I dunno. Kojima seems to be quite outside the norm for Japanese business relations. From interviews I've seen/read, he's far more direct and doesn't care much for tip-toeing/ceremony. (I could be completely wrong, though.)
He'd fit in well with the US (and has expressed his enjoyment of many Western properties and directors, like del Toro) and any company over here would offer him large bucks to join up.
>>194755
I can see that, similar to how Tango Gameworks collaborated with Bethesda. Alternately he could join Platinum which is already full of Westaboos.
Replies:>>194759
>>194757
Which is the point. She is more kawaii, and less goofy.
The thing is, the creators WANTED her to be goofy.
Replies:>>194761
>>194758
They could've made her goofy without looking, well, kind of ugly. My biggest problem with her is the droopy eyes so far.
>>194760
Same. I actually thought thought Yooka was a girl and Laylee was a guy when the concept art first came out. It would've been nice to have the heavy lifter be female and the flier be male this time around, and the designs are done in such a way that nobody but the most sensitive babbies can accuse it of being preachy.
Replies:>>194773
>>194762
I'm surprised now. I very much thought Yooka was the girl and Laylee the boy until just now. Weird.
I didn't know anything about the project and thought they were both girls.
I actually thought kazooiee was a guy till they referred to her as a she.
Replies:>>194775
http://www.playtonicgames.com/the-man-behind-yooka-and-laylee/
Yooka is definitely a dude, at least. Also I like how Laylee looks better in this sketch than the final Jeremy Renner-esque version.
>>194774
>I like how Laylee looks better in this sketch than the final Jeremy Renner-esque version.
Better clearly being a subjective term.
Replies:>>194777
I don't think they're too ugly, I think they're not ugly enough.
>>194776
Oddly enough that pseudo-realism makes them even cuter.
>>194782
Five Fingers so this is Golden Bonnie/Springtrap still?
I fucking love this game.
(Of course John Bain would be the only one to come out unscathed...)
Replies:>>194797
And here we go.
>A bunch of old Apogee/3D realms games are up on steam
>You have to buy a full $30 (Normally $40) Anthology pack to get any of them
Well fuck.
>>194797
//youtube.com/watch?v=bqheYYeA4k4
Yay for Devs Play~
the creative lead does offer an intriguing insight into the adaptive qualities of the cool chameleon, Yooka. "... when you eat larger, more significant objects the texture of the chameleon will change to reflect what he's eaten," reveals Price. "For example, if you were having to go across a windy ledge, and you ate a big rock, you'd see him go all 'rock textured' and... all of his movements all of a sudden would be a bit forced and slow and solid because he's heavier now."
So he's a little on the Kirby side.
http://www.gamesradar.com/what-can-yooka-laylees-animal-duo-actually-do/
Koji Igarashi isn’t waiting for Konami to let him make another “Igavania”. He’s waiting for your dosh instead:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/iga/bloodstained-ritual-of-the-night
>>194862
Not shown: glass thrown off-screen, killing a small child.
>>194860
>one of the stretch goals is David Hayter voice acting
Heh. Makes me wonder if his not being in MGSV had anything to do with all the Kojima-Konami politicking. Overall this project seems more modest than Yooka-Laylee, most likely because it's 2D. The art looks pretty nice although I would've preferred true-blue Ayame Kojima art but you take what you can get.
>>194860
It's already funded after like eight hours.
While Kickstarter has been good for indie developers, it's looking better and better for "established" companies and developers/producers who got shit-canned by giant monoliths (Konami, EA, etc.). It also gives gamers a direct voice against these companies, telling them "This money could have been yours, oh well!"
>>194860
>already funded
God damn. Get fucking shrekt, Konami.
Replies:>>194868
I have mixed feelings about Igarashi helming the project. Sure he gave us Aria of Sorrow and Order of Ecclesia, and Portrait of Ruin was OK, but Dawn of Sorrow, all the incredibly forgettable PS2 games, and the godawful Judgement also happened under his watch.
>>194867
The only bad thing about Dawn of Sorrow was the art change. And even then, it's what made Castlevania popular again. As for the other two, so what? He doesn't know how to make a 3D Castlevania and doesn't know how to make a fighting game. He's proven himself where it counts.
Replies:>>194874
At first glance I thought the concept art were screenshots and the possibility of a Vanillaware style Castlevania with Iga at the helm made me cream my fucking pants. Now that I know it's gonna be 2.5D and be developed by Inti Creates, most of my hype has severely deflated. It's still neat and all, but probably not something I'd go out of my way to fund or even play.
>>194860
Not a fan of the visual direction, but if the gameplay is anything like the inspiration, I am set.
save fileimage:143139789600.jpg(74kB , 400x700 , shanoa-the-main-character-in-castlevania-order-of-ecclesia-big.jpg)
This sounds like it's going big on Order of Ecclestia and that is GOOD NEWS.
Replies:>>194875
>>194869
At least they didn't fucking lie like they did with MM9. But art aside, Igarashi is a better designer than Inafune, we can expect a better game.
>>194874
>At least they didn't fucking lie like they did with MM9.
Cliffnotes on what happened?
>>194875
They said they wouldn't have SJWs!
In all likelihood he's probably talking about the second crowdfunding they did for extra content and voice acting, but that's only slightly less stupid.
>>194875
Advertise a sprite based game and then drop 2.5D.
Replies:>>194883
>trowza snake
ha
>>194879
I'm guessing he's a jumper.
Replies:>>194885
I predict the next developer who does the Kickstarter thing will be Sakaguchi.
>>194884
Pretty sure he already did, with Project Phoenix and all.
Replies:>>194887
http://gematsu.com/2015/05/project-x-zone-2-adds-phoenix-wright-bare-knuckle-summon-night-3-god-eater-2-characters
>>194886
I read that wrong and thought Phoenix Wright was gonna punch someone.
Bloodstained just got more money than Yooka-Laylee with half as many backers.
>>194890
There's multiple factors contributing to that, most of which obviously being the physical release and people really being in the mood to stick it to Konami right now. The kickstarter couldn't have come at a more perfect time.
>>194890
The second tier of backers is almost twice as high (28 vs 15 or so dollars). Also probably the fact that while their quality is spotty, Inti Creates has proven capable of producing perfectly playable and functional games, whereas the Yooka Laylee guys are mostly riding on brand goodwill.
>>194893
It's got some interesting implications, backer costs, desperation for a dead genre return to form, hatred for companies that killed said genre (Konami probably having the most toxic company PR in the entire industry right now), how much of kickstarter funding is spite versus love, developer trust, etc.
Dragon Quest 8 is coming to the 3DS.
Too bad Square is set on the idea that the west hates it for some reason.
After I've seen how infectious and annoying the FNAF fandom can be, I've come to understand exactly why people hated bronies 2 years ago.
Replies:>>194911
>We learned you guys, promise!
//youtube.com/watch?v=UgYf42d0zMg
ugh.
>Here is our new game, look as we proved we missed absolutely EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN CRITICISM
//youtube.com/watch?v=hKR42Ci000k
UGH.
WILL YOU JOIN THE GLORIOUS WHIP MASTER RACE? OR ARE YOU A SKILL-LESS SIMPLETON OF THE SWORD?
http://swordorwhip.com/
>>194911
Gameplay is much more solid than Unity and though obviously edited it's still impressive at this stage, the story is rehash but controlling cities is always fun.
That said GODDAMN IT FUCK OFF WITH EUROPE, EUROPE HAS BEEN THE CRITICISM FOR LONGER THAN I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN PLAYING THESE.
Black Flag was the best recent one by a long shot just because it was so refreshing a setting, 3 which I had high hopes for was actually just "rural European setting now with woods" and the woods were the best part by a country mile.
Like, I know they do it so they can constantly recycle assets for cheap so they can keep up the yearly mandate but NO ONE LIKES THAT.
So this coming out with a "we learned our lesson and boy we won't be doing that again!" video where the FIRST SECOND of footage shows they didn't even flinch at shoving their oldest criticism straight back to the forefront? it's not something that wows me like the old lies.
Furthermore there is no way with enough game built for a game play trailer that they didn't have a lot of this picked and being programmed before Unity was even out so the idea this was built from the ground up with the criticisms in mind is facetious PR damage control.
These are so much fun.
>>194912
People have long criticized Nintendo of being a rehash machine, but Ubisoft and Activision do so little to change the formula and game mechanics in their core series that "Save The Princess Again" Mario looks like a fountain of innovation, because at least these games actually change and redesign assets and gameplay.
Replies:>>194918
>>194912
>GODDAMN IT FUCK OFF WITH EUROPE, EUROPE HAS BEEN THE CRITICISM FOR LONGER THAN I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN PLAYING THESE.
No it hasn't been. I mean yes, people want China, but people also want Russia. A key feature of these things is mega structures and those are only really in Europe, Asia, and North Africa when you go with historical settings.
A larger concern here would be "here is another grizzled white man in his late 20s/Early30s"
Replies:>>194918
Like, this series didn't even start in Europe, how could that be the oldest issue?
Replies:>>194937
Ooh, I kinda wish they'd go with Hammer, but after all the pomp and circumstance it has to be Sword or Whip.
>>194936
If it's really gonna be like all the other "Igavanias" then there's gonna be a whole lotta weapons to choose from.
Replies:>>194940
Try to act surprised.
http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/28121/article/konami-says-mobile-now-main-platform-planning-how-to-bring-metal-gear-other-ips-to-it/
Replies:>>194944
You know how some games are fucking terrible and only frustrate you, but you can't stop playing?
Replies:>>194945
//youtube.com/watch?v=0nwPPYkd8gs
http://www.polygon.com/2015/5/12/8593793/why-didnt-konami-want-you-to-watch-this-video-about-hideo-kojima
Konami is even stupider than anyone could've imagined. Clearly they haven't been paying any attention to all the Streisand Effect that's been happening recently.
>>194942
You hate the game, but you can't bring yourself to walk away because then the terrible game "wins." It's a matter of principle.
>>194943
//youtube.com/watch?v=dj7V3GjRb5Y
//youtube.com/watch?v=4u2gPCtlAaw
This is the most beautiful trainwreck since the Xbone.
Replies:>>194948
Yeah and it's probably going to be the swordwhip.
If not it should be sword though.
>>194947
Fucking sword scum, I bet you hate skub too.
Replies:>>194952
http://www.sierra.com/kingsquest
New Kings Quest coming out. Well, remake maybe of the first one.
With Christopher Loyd, Zelda Williams and Wallace "Iocane powder is NOT in this glass" Shawn as part of the cast.
Replies:>>194953
>>194949
Shame Zelda was wasted on a character as terrible as Kuvira was in Korra. At least Kuvira was hot, in a looks-ike-a-handsome-dude kind of way.
>>194952
I wouldn't say she was terrible. Not in a meta sense, at least. Underdeveloped, sure, but interesting and compelling. She needed flashback episode or something.
>>194953
She probably would've had one if Nick hadn't dicked production around and cost them a full episode.
I just found out me and Pac-Man have the same birthday.
That's kinda neat.
Replies:>>194957
>>194953
She fell too quickly into fascist territory to take seriously, as well as the whole knowingly lying to Bolin thing. Even Unalaq was less insincere. The show had a severe problem with straw villainy aside from Book 3, and while an extra episode might've made Kuvira a lot less shallow, it probably wouldn't have fixed that first problem.
>>194956
Its true. Book 4 as a whole feels rushed in a way. We already shown she has a political opposition to what she does, Korra doesn't really encounter her non-antagonistically, ... All that stuff.
I thought that set up at the end of Book 3 was gonna result in a more nuanced, better developed arc for her as a villain, but it was really strained.
I think you could all chalk it up to the poor production schedules Viacom set up for the creatives. From telling them it was only a miniseries onwards.
Boy, videogames sure are something, huh?
>>194958
Well there is a connection. Need more females with nice abs.
>>194958
Those are some great abs.
Emma and Emmy are best girls though.
Replies:>>194962
I put a DS Emulator on my phone and HOLY SHIT GHOST TRICK
Replies:>>194963
>>194961
Have fun discovering one of the most extensive game libraries of all times. Man, the DS was fucking great. Too bad mine broke. I want to replay so many of the games so badly and it's just not the same on an emulator.
>>194962
Oh I had a DS, I just could rarely afford to buy things for it. Best thing I ever did with it was rent TWEWY.
Kick-fucking-ass, MAME’s going 100% open source: http://gamasutra.com/view/news/243598/MAME_is_going_open_source_to_be_a_learning_tool_for_developers.php
Now game preservationists (and existing game companies) can legally use MAME without running afoul of the “commercial use” restriction on MAME’s old BSID license.
Replies:>>194978
Replies:>>194980
>>194977
>I'll believe it when it already happened.
Maybe you’ll believe the actual source of the announcement, then — https://twitter.com/mamedev_org/status/598861074889351168 — because if the official mamedev.org Twitter account says MAME is going open source, I take that to mean the MAME development team announced MAME is going open source. (The quotes from an actual MAME engineer in that Gamasutra article help bolster that position.) But if you have any evidence the announcement is a complete load of bullshit, I know I’d love to see it.
>>194978
I saw that, and I'm even fairly confident they are actually trying, but I just won't personally have a reason to feel invested in this until it goes from "is going open source" to "has gone open source, go read the new license here". They're trying to make sure any objections are heard and dealt with, but they do have hundreds of contributors who could potentially object, so there's still a chance of things getting too messy for them to handle.
Plus, I'm interested in developing games for arcade machine hardware, not emulating existing ones, so MAME as it is, which would legally restrict all use of anything developed on it as a prototyping platform, means exactly nothing to me.
Replies:>>194984
Replies:>>194990
Replies:>>194991
>>194984
It's more that, no matter what you do, there will always be someone to bitch about it. For one reason or another.
>>194990
Which is why you just do what right (like give equal representation of women and not make up bullshit excuses), than give a shit about about anyone that bitches about it.
Replies:>>194994
>>194991
By that same stroke though game developers can use that same dumbass excuse to justify not being more inclusive.
Replies:>>194995
>>194993
Well it all comes down to "Do you really want to cater to those clamouring for anti-inclusiveness?"
>>194994
The usual counterexample is "they don't sell well and we need to feed our chilluns", although the former is starting to be subverted at the cinema at least, if stuff like Mad Max, Pacific Rim, and Furious 7 are any indication.
Replies:>>194997
>>194991
>just do what's right
Most people want to. But we all have priorities with varying levels of importance. That wont change. And it's the reason why, no matter what you do, there will always be someone to bitch about it.
The problem is the solution is the problem. I guess.
Replies:>>195037
>>194996
That cynicism is exactly the kind of thinking that keeps things from actually changing. Things are getting better though as executives are usually ten to twenty years behind the times and are only finally starting to realize that inclusiveness is a actually a good thing from a market perspective. The people who still complain mostly want attention like Polygon or are unreasonably impatient, like the various LGBT advocacy groups who literally were pissed at Obama because nationwide gay marriage wasn't legalized immediately after he was sworn in. Just because a vocal minority is acting ungrateful and getting cherrypicked for it doesn't mean the fight's not worth having.
Regardless of what you make, someone will dislike it. Nothing sits above reproach or criticism. We can only do what we think best serves our creations within the systems that restrict us, then leave our work to the fates.
Replies:>>195000
>>194991
>just do what's right
This is so goddamn vague and open to interpretation, it basically means nothing. It should be "just do what you want", but since AAA titles are entirely designed by focus testing and committee it's only natural that you won't ever see that happening outside of the indie space and that innovation and progressive thinking is going to happen very, very gradually if at all.
Replies:>>195001
>>194999
>it basically means nothing.
It means nothing if you have no respect, conviction or values. Which doesn't surprise me since the internet culture's shamed that sort of outlook since the dawn of its little social circles back in the early thousands so I'm not surprised the concept of "right" or "empathy" is nonexistant to people involved in this discussion.
The whole industrial Part Of The Machine aspect is one part of it. But creators do have the power to defend their artwork from the machine. And when it happens, in the case of Bioshock Infinite or Last of Us to name an example, its truly exceptional.
And hell, something we need to strive for.
>>195000
>Creators do have the power to defend their artwork from the machine. And when it happens […] it's truly exceptional. And hell, something we need to strive for.
“When we write a joke, we never ask, ‘Who’s gonna get this?’ We always say, ‘The right people will get this’.” — Joel Hodgson, creator of Mystery Science Theater 3000
Replies:>>195017
So you're saying we should protect games like Dragon's Crown and Senran Kagura from further homogenization of the industry? I'm down with that.
But no seriously I also want to see more games for women that aren't blatantly patronizing. Games like Dragon Age are doing a good job and fuck all of the retards viciously attacking them, because they don't want games that don't appeal to them to be made. But those games are the exception when they shouldn't be. Games are all-encompassing in the lifes of anyone under the age of 30 now, regardless of gender, yet somehow the shitty little boys club mentality remains.
And here's the thing, I can see why. Because the games that are getting attacked for not being inclusive are not the ones that should get attacked for it. They are niche games for a niche audience. Senran Kagura was never meant to sell to a broad market. It was meant to sell to a small audience of, admittedly, somewhat immature men who like anime girls' boobs and butts and I'm one of those men. And now these men are being painted with a broad brush, insulted and shamed for liking what they can't help but like, because their silly little niche games that were never meant to be taken seriously in the first place are what's supposedly wrong with society as a whole.
Sorry, kinda went on a tangent there. I know you can't keep politics out of gaming, because politics are in everything, but just fuck fighting all these ideological proxy wars over small games like Senran Kagura and Gone Home, just because their small audience is an easy target.
Replies:>>195018
>>195016
I honestly think we have to start seeing videogames the way we see movies. At least in a broad sense. There's sci-fi, there's fantasy, there's horror... and there's all these subgenres and niches within genre film.
Like, of course Dragon's Crown and Senran Kagura have genuine artistic merit. The same way La Bimba Di Satana has it - but I can't imagine what cinema would be if we only ever stuck on that level for the entirety of the medium.
I don't mean to make a statement here. Because you're right, there's way too much politics involved. There's politics in art. Even the Smiley Face logo isn't safe from that.
Its all about perception. Within the community and outside it. Games aren't a subsection inside an enthusiastic electronics magazine where the conversation is regarding features and their functionality.
Games are fuckin' art.
And all that implies.
>>195017
Games are not art. The average "hardcore gamer" believes that taking videogames seriously beyond their face value will inevitably lead to Socialist Realism. A medium targeted at children and adults who willfully chose mental inferiority cannot produce art, except maybe by accident.
>>195018
It's like I'm really reading literature criticism from the 1950s.
Replies:>>195022
>>195018
I've seen the same people make 20-minute long youtube rants about how Roger Ebert's death was good for games as art use this sort of thinking. That argument was literally invented so games could avoid social and artistic critique, man. Why do you buy into it.
>>195020
>games could avoid social and artistic critique
But that's what "hardcore gamers" want, since critique can include opinions they strongly disagree with and they believe that such opinions open the floodgates for busybody moral guardians who want to destroy videogames.
>>195022
Cool strawman, that'll totally make you easier to take seriously.
Replies:>>195031
>>195018
>Games are not art.
Tell that to everyone who was ever moved to feel emotions by Aerith’s death or Clementine’s story in The Walking Dead or even the opening cinematic of Shadow of the Colossus. (I was someone who damn near dropped to his knees in awe of the beauty of that last one.) Games are art, just of a different kind.
>The average "hardcore gamer" believes that taking videogames seriously beyond their face value will inevitably lead to Socialist Realism.
Read: “The average 'hardcore gamer' doesn’t want people criticizing games beyond the surface because it might mean acknowledging some uncomfortable truths about the industry, the games it creates, and the gamers themselves.”
Seriously, if someone thinks people shouldn’t take videogames “seriously”, that someone doesn’t want people to do it because that someone fears what people might say about their favorite series—and the people who play games from that series.
>A medium targeted at children and adults who willfully chose mental inferiority cannot produce art, except maybe by accident.
This is a gross generalization of the medium of videogames, and it’s a horrible insult aimed at adults who play videogames, to boot. Would you at least try not referring to adults who play videogames as “mentally inferior” in the future?
>>195024
No, they don’t. But when someone says the “average hardcore gamer” doesn’t want people taking videogames seriously, such a statement can be construed to mean “hardcore gamers don’t want people critiquing games for their sociopolitical and artistic merits”. Don’t like it? Help change the image of hardcore gamers instead of complaining about how people can overgeneralize them like that.
The identity of the "hardcore gamer" is a weird one anyway since it has been invented by marketing and then took on a life of its own.
Seeing as "hardcore gamer" in a lot of places just refers to people who play console and PC games as opposed to mobile ones and stuff like Bejeweled, it's a nebulous term to begin with.
Replies:>>195031
Back in “my day” (read: back in my childhood/early teens), I took “hardcore gamer” to mean someone who was deeeeeeeeep into gaming—like, has subscriptions to GamePro, EGM, and GameFan/owns an NES, SNES, Genesis, and Game Boy/dreams of designing his own games deep. The “hardcore gamer” of “my day” devoted hours, days, weeks, months, YEARS of their lives to the sole purpose of gaming. Shit, I once spent hours playing one of the NES Mega Man games with my brother and two of our neighbors—we stayed up past midnight and almost beat that shit, were it not for the final boss—and that’s the kind of thing that defined the “hardcore gamer” image for me back then.
Now you have speedrunners and hackers and people who devote their time to learning the ins and outs of a game in ways I could’ve never dreamed of back in “my day”. As a kid, I always imagined playing in a fighting game tourney at my local arcade; seeing the FGC’s level of competitiveness and the depths of their fighting game knowledge as an adult makes me realize how narrow my field of vision was back then—and helps me see how things have changed so much since “my day”.
I think what people are referring to here are specifically the folks who self-identify as "hardcore" gamers rather than what the media often refers to as such, since by those latter standards everyone who posts on this board qualifies as one and if "hardcore gamers" are all really such equally terrible people then none of us would even be having this discussion in the first place.
Replies:>>195033
>>195026
>Read: “The average 'hardcore gamer' doesn’t want people criticizing games beyond the surface because it might mean acknowledging some uncomfortable truths about the industry, the games it creates, and the gamers themselves.”
Exactly.
>Would you at least try not referring to adults who play videogames as “mentally inferior” in the future?
Do you think it's coincidence that people obsessed with videogames tend to be insufferable retards?
>>195029
Sounds like something I could've believed before the internet showed me that nerds are at least as likely as anyone else to be complete garbage.
Non-terrible videogame enthusiasts are the exception, not the norm. (Non-terrible nerds obsess over useful things, not disposable entertainment.)
Replies:>>195048
>>195031
>Do you think it's coincidence that people obsessed with videogames tend to be insufferable retards?
There are two things you need to know. One: obsessions with anything (including videogames) and mental retardation are not one and the same. Two: continually insulting a large swath of humanity because you think it makes a point neither helps you make that point nor helps me sympathize with whatever point you might want to make.
>>194997
What makes you think I'm a cynic about it?
I honestly think its a good thing that people have various values and tastes. It's just difficult to understand the perspectives at others and sometimes it can be really frustrating. And I'm not sure if there's really any objective way to approach it much of the time. But I hardly think it's hopeless.
Replies:>>195044
>>195018
Whether games are as worthy of being called "art" as other mediums or not, it makes sense to denote thematic genres of them as well as mechanics-based genres. An "average gamer" wanting to avoid thinking ctirically is all the more reason to, if anything, since it lets one separate out genres of game that cater to different audiences, diminishing influence from "the average".
It's funny how gamers are always so quick to defend games as art, when gamers have demonstrated very clearly that they don't want games to be art. For proof, look no further than the reaction to Mass Effect 3's ending. Bioware went for a daring, artistic decision in what to do and say with that ending, and gamers revolted based purely on the fact that it didn't fellate them the way games usually do. And then through market forces, the audience forced the "artists" to revise their work in a way that was more pleasing for them as entertainment.
Games could be art. But not if they want "gamers" to play them. It's yet another reason why I find the "gamer" community disgusting and refuse to think of myself as a gamer, despite enjoying video games.
Replies:>>195046
>>195038
>An "average gamer" wanting to avoid thinking ctirically is all the more reason to
God, even your average 'turn off your brain' popcorn flick has its creation based around a specific sociocultural context.
Pacific Rim, the ultimate Turn Off Your Brain movie was made with so much in mind behind it.
At this point it just seems like people don't want anyone making them feel uncomfortable about their vidyas.
Replies:>>195048
>>195044
>it just seems like people don't want anyone making them feel uncomfortable about their vidyas
Doubly so if it's some persnickety “outsider” who dares to “invade” their Special Little World and tell the people within that their culture sucks and its creative works promote some troublesome ideas.
>>195033
It's not the videogame obsession that makes them retarded, it's that videogame obsession and retardation by choice go hand in hand more often than not.
>>195039
>anything EA
>"daring, artistic"
You're definitely a "gamer" despite you believing otherwise.
>>195046
Anyone got that "MGS5 is problematic. MGS 1-4? I don't know anything about those games" screenshot?
Replies:>>195051
>>195039
Mass Effect 3's ending being fairly shitty has little to do with whether games are art or not. People hated the end of a story, that's happened with every other medium just as often.
>>195050
Well tell that to the people who argue games aren't art for the sake of "Who cares if its X Issue, dont take it so seriously its just a game"
>>195051
Yeah, I've seen this a lot recently, too. I was watching this game design stream on twitch and the topic just came up to conclusion of "oh well okay, games are art, you know how it is." And this one guy just started vehemently defending the point of "Wait what are you talking about games aren't art."
Like, last I checked the medium and the community was doing everything it could for games to be considered art for the mainstream - now this a little after MGS4 came out I guess. 2009, 2010... And like they mentioned, the whole 'gamer circle' saw Roger Ebert's comment about game design not being art as this huge talking point and got a lot of people against him.
So what the hell happened? Was it really the whole 'criticism' thing that got them to up and flip around the argument?
Replies:>>195055
>>195051
They're being assholes who refuse to see games as art because they don't want to look at them critically, there's not much reasoning with that. But no matter what they say, art is art, and video games qualify. Whether games really are art or not isn't the matter there, it's just an excuse to shut up someone they find annoying. If the way to shut people up was to say that video games are art, they'd say that instead.
>>195054
Ahem... it's much more simple. The majority of people associate art with tings that are serious. Games are FUN. Whenever you label something as art, it stops sounding fun.
It's about the associations, and little else.
Replies:>>195057
>>195055
From what I've gathered actually, one of the things it seems to be tied to is being able to ask for "objective reviews" as opposed to ones formed from "opinion."
You know the kind.
>"Game has feature. Feature is good but laggy. There is also another feature, which is polished and runs smoothly. The game has graphics that are good, even though there are framerate issues. The story is engaging and entertaining and the characters have good voice acting even though the actress can be a bit stale. Overall this game is fun. I give it an 8.8 out of 10."
>>195056
lookin at you, projared.
//youtube.com/watch?v=uo6s6oYraB4
and i actually think he's an ok guy.
Replies:>>195065
>>195055
No, it's assholes. Art can be fun, nobody says that books or comics or movies aren't art even with Harry Potter, pulp serials and Die Hard existing. When the question comes up of whether games are art, the only time I've seen games ever side against games being art is because then games would have to stand up to a level of scrutiny.
Replies:>>195065
It's not about the fact that games are fun. It's about the fact that the community does not support artistry. The gaming community at large is only interested in self-indulgence and power fantasy. The second you try to challenge something, the community rebels. It is not a community of art lovers or even art appreciators. It is a community of man-children who want people to take them seriously and try to piggyback on the art community because they think that's how they get respect.
And yet look how fucking pissed gamers get the second anything gets "political." Or any time a video game doesn't just fucking give you everything you want. Or look how resentful the community gets at the idea of actually paying the people who create these games--people who in theory they should respect as "artists"--for their work. How much they bitch and moan the second DLC is announced, or that they might have to pay extra for extra features, or any other little thing that doesn't baby them.
There is no room for at in a community like that. There is only room for schlocky, lowest-common-denominator bullshit. Just paint that lowest common denominator bullshit with enough stuff that lets them pretend like they're engaging their minds rather than intellectually masturbating and the gaming community will herald any piece of shit as the most artistic thing ever created. Because they don't actually know anything about art nor do they give a shit about art--they just want to pretend they're sophisticated.
We have built a community that exalts in peter panism and rejects anything that challenges the status quo or makes them think about the world. Art games can exist, but they'll never do well in a community like this until we destroy the current incarnation of the gaming community and rebuild an actual civilization in its ashes.
>>195063
>How much they bitch and moan the second DLC is announced
That frequently happens for good reasons. The existence of the ">paying for games" meme doesn't make shitty business practices unexistant.
What you ought to blame "gamers" for is allowing those companies to continue existing despite their open disrespect for their customers. You seem to buy into the idiotic "videogame companies do nothing wrong, gamers are just entitled" narrative (which is spread by the industry and its "journalist" bootlickers).
>>195061
Videogames aren't art because videogames are disposable, without cultural significance. They're niche entertainment for a niche mostly occupied by children and undesirables. If all "gamers" spontaneously dropped dead tomorrow, would anyone beyond their social circles care at all? Videogame "culture" only matters to "gamers".
Replies:>>195072
I didn't exactly expect Valiant Hearts to be a light-hearted romp or anything, but fuck, man.
Replies:>>195076
Like the Zaibatsu aren't wrong about DC movies being shit but they are so back asswards it's embarrassing.
Fucksake they think the CW universe, the one redeeming DC thing, is part of the Man of Steel universe, THEY ARE LITERALLY WHY THE WB THINKS WE'RE ALL RETARDED.
Sword or Whip has finished!
let us pray for the defeat of the filthy steel swinger and the victory of the leather lashers!
>>195067
I got it via PS+ and I haven't played it yet for that exact reason. Not in the mood to be depressed right now and I've become more sensitive lately towards bad things happening to dogs. So, remembering that trailer shot of the dog companion sitting at all those soldiers' graves just kills me already.
Replies:>>195080
>>195068
>Fucksake they think the CW universe, the one redeeming DC thing
It was specifically said that they didn't think they were related.
Also the whip was good in one game, 4, and never good again.
Replies:>>195091
>>195065
>They're niche entertainment for a niche mostly occupied by children and undesirables
Holy shit this is Poe's Law, isn't it.
Replies:>>195084
>>195076
No, they specified they were confused about it.
And the whip is the bar none greatest 2D weapon ever you steel penis lover.
>>195065
It's not that I think video game companies do nothing wrong. It's that I think the gaming community would whine about it even if they didn't, because they're a bunch of whiny, spoiled babies.
Replies:>>195085
>>195081
I can't tell if you're some sort of reverse troll designed to make anti-GGers look bad, or if your head is really this far up your own ass.
>>195080
No, the whip has always been either janky as shit in the old games or a subpar weapon in the Iga ones. The only time it worked was in 4, where you had control over it.
>>195083
I don't know how you've tied this to GG. I mean yeah, GG's a symptom of the problem too, but it's a relatively uninteresting and unsurprising part of it. The gaming community celebrates people who treat other people abusively and deeply fears any sort of change other than increased poly counts. Like you can take that to political issues (because ultimately every issue is political in the end), but it doesn't even have to go that far. You can just look at the reactions to video games that try to do anything that hasn't been done 1,000 times before. Gamers bitch about the lack of new IPs but refuse to buy anything that isn't the seventh sequel to some game series that was tired a decade ago.
Not that they really like buying old IPs, either, because again gamers hate seeing their money go to the people they claim to think of as artists. They use the internet nerd's classic "Art Appreciation" doublespeak where they claim to believe in art, but also attack any artist who tries to make a living at their art. "True art should be done for free" is something that only people who have nothing but contempt for artists and their art believe.
Replies:>>195092
>>195077
You haven't been around much, have you? Regular forums or imageboards, "gaming communities" are filled with utter garbage that chose to be utter garbage by refusing to grow up.
>>195081
And therefore you defend the scumbags, because scumbags exploiting retards is a good thing worth defending. Well done.
>>195091
>And therefore you defend the scumbags, because scumbags exploiting retards is a good thing worth defending. Well done.
No, I defend artists who need to make money to survive against audiences who have no interest in anything but exploiting their work for less than it costs to make because they don't value the work that's being done to entertain them. You see these people as "scumbags" because you're thinking only of how this pricing affects you, and not *why* it exists in the first place. It exists because making video games is incredibly expensive and the amount of money that the people making the games make off of them is minimal. Programmers, designers, musicians, scenario writers, none of them get paid anything close to a fair amount of money for the amount of work they do.
Yes, much of this is because publishers are bullshit. But that is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. You are *using* the fact that publishers screw over artists to justify your own screwing over of artists. "Well, the publishers take most of the money, so it's fine if I steal this game or try to force the publishers to make less money (and therefore pay artists less)." If you actually gave a shit about artists, you would not be just bitching about DLC. You would be protesting the pay rates and work schedules of the creators of video games. But you're not doing that. You only give a shit about these things because of how they affect you--and not because it is UNFAIR to you (which it's demonstrably not), but because you just don't like being expected to pay for entertainment.
>>195092
>EA, Ubisoft, and their ilk
>artists
Those companies are scumbags because they demand more for less, push anti-features based on unverifiable assumptions and show nothing but contempt for their consumers. They call used games theft, they call people who oppose intrusive DRM thieves and luddites, they call people who dislike their products idiots and they wield copyright as a club to silence criticism.
Artists? AAA companies don't create "art". They create mass-market garbage, without any risk or creativity. If they can't mathematically prove it will sell 20 million copies, it's not worth producing. They declare series and entire genres "dead" based on methods that seem to have nothing to do with what anyone who actually plays videogames thinks. Then ex-devs and indies pick up what the big guys threw away and make profit and the AAA industry wonders what happened (and promptly cries piracy some more, because the AAA industry never admits mistakes).
Those companies hate the medium's past. They see old games not as something to be preserved, but something to be thrown away so they can sell the remake/reboot/whatever. They sit on dead IPs that they won't do anything with ever (because that's too risky), but will of course enforce their rights to them. They oppose the preservation of games they're no longer selling/supporting because of vague accusations of piracy (look it up).
Do your fucking research. Stop defending shit companies just because "gamers" are stupid enough to allow them to survive. You're not rebuking "gamers", you're making excuses for an anti-consumer industry. Shit on "gamers" all you want (there are plenty of legit reasons), but don't enable scumbags.
Also, to any idiots who honestly believe that pirating AAA games is "sticking it to the man": You're only playing into their hands.
Replies:>>195096
>>195094
>Talking about developers
>Lists publishers
>Accuses other people of not doing the research
Lol.
Replies:>>195099
>>195094
>Artists? AAA companies don't create "art". They create mass-market garbage, without any risk or creativity.
Your contention is that they produce bad art, shallow, with only commercial interests in mind. That may be so. But bad art is, nonetheless, art.
This whole argument is so tired. It is old, tired, settled, and buried. It was settled long before video games were even entered into the equation. Rehashing it so that you can feel superior to all the little sheeple is not interesting to anyone but you.
Replies:>>195100
>>195096
But developers' money comes from the same place the publishers' money comes from. So yes, when you say that the fact that EA publishes something means that it shouldn't make money, you are arguing that the developers who made the games EA is publishing don't deserve money. Which is like saying that, because DC Comics is a soulless endeavor, that no one should buy Neil Gaiman's run on Sandman. Because while, yes, you're screwing over Neil Gaiman, Dave McKean, Sam Keith, and the other artists who worked on the Sandman, you're also screwing over DC, and that makes it all okay. Also, it's not like the Sandman can really be art anyway since it was put out by DC, a mainstream comics publisher that almost exclusively deals in trashy power fantasy comics.
There is nothing unfair or anti-consumer about paid DLC. It is additional work being put onto a game and being sold to you that you don't have to have to play the game. There are artists who have to make that content, and when you whine that you have to pay for it, you're spitting in their faces and saying that they should've done that extra work for free. You can pose that as being against Big Business, but what you're really saying is that the programmers and the modellers and the texture artists and the musicians who are making that extra content for you should be paid less for their work.
>>195099
If the developers want my money, they can work for someone who doesn't call me a thief for wanting to play singleplayer games without a persistent internet connection. It worked for plenty of developers. If the devs suffer because the execs decided to make their product behave like malware or cut out half the features the previous game had, that sucks, but it still doesn't make the corporation worth supporting or exempt from criticism. Developers aren't slaves. You're still defending scumbags. In fact, you're using the same excuses some publishers pull when criticized. The publishers - who see most of the money - don't deserve money or loyalty. "Gamers" still buying their games anyway is why AAA gaming is such a homogenized wasteland.
Before you pull another strawman, let me repeat: Also, to any idiots who honestly believe that pirating AAA games is "sticking it to the man": You're only playing into their hands.
>DLC
The problem isn't the concept, it's the execution. It provides an incentive to cut features out of the game and sell them seperately. It's not necessarily "additional work". Good DLC exists; it's the kind that works like expansion packs of old, or non-overpriced cosmetic stuff. That's not what AAA companies want though, they want to squeeze as much money out of as little effort as possible and it frequently shows. That's why there's good reason to be skeptical whenever DLC is announced.
Don't try to counter this with "but they said it was extra work". This industry isn't trustworthy and has proven that time and again.
Replies:>>195120
>>195107
RIP
Luckily for me, I had 0 expectations. EA can't ruse me again into a pre-order.
>>195116
The game has not been cancelled. I actually was in the thread at /v/ when some anon mentioned that he had bougth that domain and planned to troll EA with it.
>>195120
So how much of what that chart says is actually true? Regarding number of modes, maps, etc.
And has there been any word on split-screen local multiplayer?
Is Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut any good? I've already got Shadowrun Returns but I haven't played it (Steam libraries, maaan) and it's a little over £3 in the sales for the next few days.