Who do you think the strongest tournament entries are? As in, which characters perform the best overall?
In terms of Ms. /co/, Jenny is probably close to the top if not the top. Fang got third place (losing to the winner by 9 votes) in 2020 and won in 2022, so she’s up there. Raven does consistently well but not well enough to make the E8.
Who else does well pretty much every time they’re in? Who does the worst consistently?
Good question. Gonna repost this:
>average /co/ character win percentage of their winning tournament
1. Bravo: 72.5%
2. Kronk: 64.5%
3. Jenny: 62.7%
4. Monarch: 60.0%
5. Grievous: 59.3%
6. Tom: 57.88%
7. Spinel: 57.85%
8. Fang: 57.1%
9. Zorak 56.4%
10. Betty: 55.9%
Going by this Bravo stomps the hardest. Jenny's the strongest girl. But if we include all factors as valid factors then the answer for strongest would inarguably be Spinel cause no character ever was gonna beat that fotm + rig + spite.
But of course there are a lot of factors. One characters's performance in one year doesn't guarantee what they'd do in a succeeding year, for there's trends in taste or shit happening connected to their media.
We can go by consistency in being at the top every year but it's hard to compare that to winners who had only competed once (like Jenny, Bravo, Kronk). Also there are the fotm factors that give heavy strength to a particular year. Monarch was an example of a mid character that got boosted with cancellation into a win. Can we put her above Fang even though she beat her?
So at best I'd divide characters into strongest winners (based off how dominant their victory year was) and strongest non-winners (based more off of consistency so far). In the former camp the statistics do a pretty good job of ranking them, with Spinel the obvious exception (either being by far the weakest or strongest winner depending on how valid you accept the run). In the latter camp I'd say Chel, and Tyr'ahnee are the demonstrably best for the females; JJJ, Jack, Aku, Daffy, Hank, and Courage for the males.
The girls are kind of fucky cause of course you have spite and psyops out the ass mucking up clean measurements - for example the FARTS girls who are strong in theory getting screwed because of that. I just go off of pure performance regardless cause that's the best I could do.
/v/'s another matter. Maybe I'll think about that some more.
>Who else does well pretty much every time they’re in?
For /v/, the strongest characters excluding winners would probably be Roll for the women and Kiryu for the men, the former placing 8th and 4th the two times she was in, and the latter getting 3rd both times he's been in. Worth noting for Kiryu that he manages to win most of his matches by really good margins, with things only getting narrow by quarter-finals.
If we're including winners, then Reimu for the women and Armstrong for the men. Reimu managed to win matches with decent margins in Elite Eight while also doing really damn well in her bracket. Her only close match was against Morrigan. Armstrong curbstomped most of his matches, and it only really got tight for him against Heavy.
>Who does the worst consistently?
For Queen it's Monika and for King it's Banjo. They've been in every year but they always get shitted on in round 1 and have never won a match. Lady is probably the most infamous jobber because of Ladyfag.
A similar question was posed in a recent stealth tourney thread, asking what would be our equivalent to GameFAQS' Noble Nine in terms of tournament success. Frankly it’s very complicated to get an accurate picture of the strongest tournament entries given:
>the way winners are barred from entering ever again after their victory and how this plays into deciding who is more "deserving" of winning a given year
>the Elite Eight clause explicitly existing to prevent Clinkeroth situations and how that also plays into strategic voting
Being crowned champion doesn’t mean you are of extreme popularity within the board, it’s been overstated at this point. We can go by consistency in being at the top every year, but it's hard to compare that to winners who had only competed once. Jenny stomped when she won Ms. /co/ 2019, but I’m convinced she would have been victim of a similar fate of most other heavy hitters given the contrarian, spiteful nature Ms. /co/ has been enthralled in lately.
Batter beat Eggman in the finals, but he is notable for having a relatively easy path to victory. I don’t believe for a second he could have managed to overcome Doomguy like Eggman was able to. Recette also beat Madotsuki in the finals, but the latter beat GLaDOS, in the third round of that tournament nonetheless. Would you really say they were the stronger characters?
Straight up comparing winning statistics doesn’t help here either. Mrs. Monarch technically has a slightly higher percentage than Grievous, yet she was specifically voted for in protest of her series cancellation and had an easy as fuck bracket full of jobbers. Grievous had to beat TWO previous runner-ups and the guy that would eventually place 2nd in 2022.
This is also why a fucked up bracket can either keep what in reality are some pretty powerful contestants out of the limelight by pitting them early with other heavy hitters, or on the contrary give weak entrants a much higher placement than they deserve. Amaterasu, Tifa, Doomguy and Edgeworth for the former and Jack Frost and Luigi for the latter are probably the biggest examples from this year.
As you can see, there are way too many factors tied to tournament performance in order to calculate who really are the strongest contenders. Personally I would do just like >>16305 says and divide characters into strongest winners and strongest non-winners, but also taking into account
>who they won/lost to
>how far into the tournament
>by what percentage
Continuing from this post, I can divide non-winners into four categories by looking at everyone who has made semifinals:
>Absolute powerhouses. Have only been defeated by other runner-ups/champions and consistently perform well, even without the need of campaigning. Very good chances of winning it all at some point BUT could become victims of metagaming just as easily.
King /v/: Kiryu, Eggman, JC Denton.
Queen /v/: Madotsuki, Hornet, GLaDOS, Amaterasu.
Mr. /co/: Courage, Jack, Aku.
Ms. /co/: Tyr’ahnee, Chel, Raven.
>High tier. Consistently perform well but may have been defeated by 'middlers' at some point. Mostly still need campaigning. Everyone in this tier is essentially on equal measure and I could see them eliminating one another.
King /v/: Doomguy, Travis, AM, Phoenix, Vergil.
Honorable mention to Wario, whom while hasn’t made semi-finals yet has proven to be very strong and only lost to other high tier characters. I think Snake is relatively strong too but has been stuck on a Sweet 16 loop for a while now.
Queen /v/: Tifa, Marisa, Roll, Fio, Alice, 2B, Maya. Nobody else really stands out, probably Shantae and Cirno.
Mr. /co/: Hank, Daffy, Grim, JJJ, Carl, Wallace
Honorable mention to Skeletor, same reasoning as Wario.
Ms. /co/: Kim, Frankie, Starfire. Toph is on thin cold ice of being relegated to jobber status.
>Meme tier. Made it far once under very specific circumstances, but don’t have any staying power, at least my eyes.
King /v/: Jack Frost, Morshu.
Mr. /co/: Hugh Neutron, Captain America.
Ms. /co/: Shirley, Ms. Bellum, Nicole, the Hilda reps.
>Not Enough Info tier. This is basically where the low seeded underdogs who didn’t win in their respective years go.
Alice and Marvin are the only real examples. How well they'll perform the following years will decide if they are High Tier or if their runs were just flukes.
If I were to go into specifics, I would say I think every high tier /v/ female can only go nowhere but down desu. Not that they are going to stop making top 8 all of a sudden, just that anons don’t see them as winner material - Marisa in particular I feel is gonna tank hard unless Touhoufags give her all their energy.
>could become victims of metagaming just as easily.
I've seen people already wanting to do this with Eggman and Kiryu, the former because he's seen as a huge jobber and the latter because of his lack of campaigning yet still being able to shitstomp most of his matches. Kiryu might be able to escape this if he gets a campaign going, but Eggman is most likely fucked unless Eggmanfags embrace the memes like what happened with Battler this year.
>Marisa in particular I feel is gonna tank hard unless Touhoufags give her all their energy.
At this point Marisa is the only 2hu that could do well seeing as the bracket this year was just EoSD jobbers and there's a good chance that'll be the same for 2023. Marisa could also have a boost from Beatrice and Grunty fans if that witches alliance comes back.
Well a counter to the easy vs. hard bracket thing is that the end result determines the stronger candidate regardless. If X beats Y, X is by extension stronger than anyone Y beat. But of course this belies another factor which is narrative, campaign, and perhaps even novelty factor power. A character can sort of "fall into" a deep run via easy bracket and/or campaigning and then suddenly get the interest of many new people as a winner with an added factor of narrative and novelty (likely encouraged when the other options left are technically "stronger" characters but as a result more "boring" or "predictable"). I wouldn't have guessed Zorak, for example, would've usurped Daffy or Courage in the final rounds prior to this year. Goes to show how it's basically impossible to make a certain ranking when considering how mutable and prone to influence tournaments are (to say nothing of potential rigging always going on).
But still this is a good, more nuanced look I mostly agree with. I just try to measure by pure statistics as the best "objective" measurement. One probably could calculate all the relative factors into a complex fightmatrix-esque numeric ranking, but that's a task too autistic even for me.
In terms of companies seems like Cartoon Network/Warner bros including the MGM animation library/Adult swim have the most win representation, Jenny is currently the only NICK rep to win and Betty stands out herself with fleischer and paramount(Nick’s owners so 2?), it’s surprising that Kronk is the only Disney rep to win(unless you count greivous which I don’t having his counterpart made by CN and FOX).
>Ms. /co/: Shirley, Ms. Bellum, Nicole, the Hilda reps.
Don't forget Brisby and Chel
Chel has been a powerhouse since the very beginning and Brisby has never made semis.
He didn't fail to qualify, he just wasn't nominated, same deal with AM.
I wonder how well Armstrong would do these days considering how normalfags suddenly decided to start meming MGR again.
Had he not won in 2019, I could've seen him winning in 2021. Sure he'll attract some spitevotes because of the new MGR memes, but he'd be a funpost and OC machine if he came back.
My guess is that he would make top 8 without much trouble but also target of some spite thanks to MGR becoming more popular among normalfags. I remember anons calling Sam a Reddit pick while againts Garland.
If that "Emperor of /v/" tourney ever becomes reality I can see Armstrong winning it all unless an even more beloved champion comes around.
I would probably vote for Batter in that scenario due to me having a bigger emotional attachment to OFF, but in terms of overall reception within the tournaments him and Armstrong are at the same level.
So who do guys think would get into the Elite 8 this year for the first time?
I won’t say because I will probably jinx it, like always.
I think Chris Redfield has a decent shot after his campaign last year and the Mecha-Chris saga
True. But It'd be very hard with Leon coming back. So that's one for King down. What about the other tournaments?