/mtv/ - Music, Television & Film

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2016/06/01/rogue-one-a-star-wars-story-reshoots-will-add-levity-fun/
Oh come ON.

>>46305
People are freaking the hell out about these reshoots.

Why are people freaking the hell out about these reshoots?

This pervasive internet myth that a standard Hollywood practice heralds UNTOLD CATASTROPHE is getting really tiring.

>>46309

I think it’s less about the fact they’re happening and more about why they’re (supposedly) happening.

I've read other reports that its not Reshoots perse but just additional shooting days that were scheduled including a placeholder for Young Han when he was eventually cast.

>>46310
The claim that they're being done to make the movie more "fun" sounds like the Suicide Squad ones all over again.

>>46313
And those turned out to be fake, so...

>>46315
>Fake
Reported "inaccurate" by the already in-shambles PR department in WB.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-rogue-one-enlists-899530

Making it less like a war movie.

Its a funny note because watching Half in the Bag stuff on Star Wars and hearing their critique during streams. Making it more like a war movie would be a better tone giving the sides and the conflicts involved.

Word now is the shoots were in planning from the start of production.

>>46486
Don't most movies made by Disney do? I remember the Marvel movies having a similar "controversy" during the Feige-Perlmutter split fiasco. Bleeding Cool tried to claim the MCU movies were so horrifically financially mismanaged and misdirected that they needed last-minute reshoots but a bunch of other articles pointed out it's been known for years most of these movies have planned reshoots along with a section of the budget for them. Same with Suicide Squad most likely.

>>46487
Yea I think sometimes it's filming placeholder scenes and then the full ones later.

Finally saw Force Awakens. Pretty solid felt like a good continuation like the next set of a trilogy of books. New Characters carrying on from the old with some reference to them and a little of their inclusion.

//youtube.com/watch?v=W3nQvaP0BXg

Just watch it.

>>46564
Also //youtube.com/watch?v=xmXp802sFgQ

>>46564
Yea I think that was one thing stated long ago that the story group would just look through and get the good ideas out.

Hope we get the Maw Instillation back and the Corporate Sector Authority.

I hope we get Revan back too.

>>46567


Way too much Sith lore was put into Old Republic to think they'd abandon all that with that becoming more a focus.

I think I saw Dark Troopers. Maybe they can bring back Kyle Katarn after all.

>>46569
Someone also noted what looked like a YT-2400 Freighter. So maybe even some Dash in the future.

Clone Wars still cannon so Black Sun is already in.

>>46571
All it took was cutting out the bad parts. So the Vong get banished to the trash pile.

>>46597
ooof, a really "what might have been" Situation. You know if Palpy hadn't earmarked Anakin and just ignored his masters machinations about a "chosen one". Later Clone Wars Season Obi-wan would have been prime turning material.

Lost the love of his life, Jedi Council consistently getting into more shadowy control things. I think Palpy could have appealed to him that the system is broken (rotting and decaying) And that there needs to be something new to stabilize things.

>>46598
I don't know... the way I always saw it, Anakin was created in the first place to be the most powerful apprentice for the Sith.

After the nightmare the reshoots caused Suicide Squad I'm scared for Rogue One again.

>>46794

Suicide Squad's reshoots were the result of WB's "oh fuck" reaction to BvS’s assfucking from critics. I doubt Disney has the same "we need to save the franchise" fears about Rogue One.

>>46794

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/23/star-wars-rogue-one-reshoot-concerns

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/rogue-one-drama-writer-tony-916695

I think it'll be fine. Disney won't panic and throw something out that is a shit edit that is connected to their tentpoles.

And this doesn't have Squads problem with about half the cast being obsessed trying to do method acting.

>>46796

Or the director enabling it.

The full trailer for Rogue One has arrived:

//youtube.com/watch?v=frdj1zb9sMY

>>46884
I like the Droid maybe a model of the IG line.

>>46884
Man Whitaker is just not doing it for me. I hope he's not like that all the time.

Kenny Baker (you know him as the guy inside R2D2) just passed away. RIP.

>>46892
Damn that's a shame. Read he consulted on Episode VIII as they've gone with using a dude in the suit again for some scenes with Artoo.

>>47068

How many “lightsaber battle” fan films need to exist before everyone realizes how shallow they are? A fight in and of itself isn't a conflict, but a mechanism for solving a conflict—and there's no conflict here beyond the surface level "Jedi vs. Sith" conflict. I was given no reason to care about the Jedi (or Kylo Ren, for that matter); as a result, the Jedi's death didn’t come off as meaningful or sad or whatever effect the filmmakers were going for. If anything, the length of the fight and the lack of anything meaningful in the film gave me more of a feeling of “finally!” once the Jedi was killed.

I’d love to see one of these fan films put a Sith against a Jedi in what you might call a philosophy debate—having them each talk about why they use the Force they way they do—before they go at it in a lightsaber battle. Give me opposing perspectives, justifications for their actions, an actual conflict deeper than the kind of “good vs. evil” conflict that a six-year-old could write. If a fan film can give me a reason to give a shit about its characters beyond “they can swing a sword in a neat way”, I’ll care more about that fan film.

>>47069
People do them for fun.

>>47070

I’m well aware of that. More power to ’em. Doesn’t mean I can’t criticize the lack of depth in such fan films.

(And the ridiculousness of the lightsaber battles themselves, for that matter. I’m surprised someone hasn’t gone full wuxia with the concept, which might be the only way of really making these kinds of films worth watching. I mean, if you’re gonna do all this over-the-top swordfighting, go fully nuts or go home, yo.)

>>47072

>a well done lightsaber fight

I'd argue that it wasn't even well done—it was just a hollow action scene that was more about putting on the affectation of “cool” than trying to use the action as a vehicle for characterization. Anyone can choreograph a lightsaber battle like the one in that fan film, but it takes talent far beyond that to make that battle tell a story about which people can give a shit. Like I said, a fight isn’t a conflict, but a means to solve a conflict; why should I give a shit about a fight if I don’t give a shit about the underlying conflict (if there even is one)?

>>47073
Well, at least there was SOME moves that were neat, gotta give credit to the makers of that short, they used the concept of a light-crossguard in a more interesting way than the actual movie.

And yeah, no conflict. Who is that Jedi? Why should we care? If I had to guess and do the writer's work (one thing is to fill the blanks, but here there isn't even any blanks), the Jedi perhaps was one of Luke's apprentices and Kylo's buddy and he is there to regrettably put a stop to his fall to the dark side, but it could also be easily constructed that he was just some guy Luke left to live with the Ewoks, to watch over his dad's charred remains. Now THAT'S a shitty assignment if there ever was one.

>>47073
An excellent point and a good reason why I could never get into that Darth Maul fan film everyone was lapping up last year. It's a little mystifying why Star Wars fan films concentrate almost exclusively on fully-fledged Jedi and kewl lightsaber fights when a: the mainline films already have those covered, and b: they're amongst the least interesting aspect of Star Wars.

>>47072
Troops was a damn fine exception to the fan film norm. A more recent one that broke the mould (I feel) was "Kara," by Whitelist. It has emotion, heart, character, a proper arc, and while it does feature a force-sensitive, it actually uses force-sensitivity to tell a metaphorical story about adolescence and loss (there's shades of Carrie to how Kara's powers manifest) rather than treating it as an excuse to do 'bzew bzew' mouth noises:
//youtube.com/watch?v=013r_PNIcxs

>>47075

>It's a little mystifying why Star Wars fan films concentrate almost exclusively on fully-fledged Jedi and kewl lightsaber fights when a: the mainline films already have those covered, and b: they're amongst the least interesting aspect of Star Wars.

I’d argue something along the lines of Film Crit HULK’s “tangible details” theory, in that those kinds of things are the most visible and thus easiest-to-replicate aspects of the Star Wars franchise. It’s relatively easy to put together a choreographed swordfight, toss in a few lightsaber sounds and effects during editing, and call it a day. But breathing life into the swordfight beyond its surface is a far harder task. It requires knowing character motivations and perspectives, figuring out what kind of conflict would require this fight to resolve, and a sense of dramatic structure—in other words, it requires knowing how to tell a story.

I mentioned wuxia a few posts back, and CinemaFix loves to bring this scene up (see //youtube.com/watch?v=t3_d5Y0Gr3c for their best take on it), so I’ll point to this specific fight scene from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon as an example of what I mean: //youtube.com/watch?v=DFH6lXJ6c4k

>>47076
Thing is, you don't even have to look outside Star Wars. Both times Luke and Vader tussle in the OT are wonderful examples of a fight being there to help tell the story, and not just to be cool. The choreography itself tells you about the characters (love when Vader just starts pummeling Luke by flinging random debris at him) and what they are feeling.

>>47078
You meant the little green pseudo-wise man?

If Rey is a Skywalker:

//youtube.com/watch?v=mjHEHuNyvME

Mr. Plinkett's The Star Wars Awakens Review
//youtube.com/watch?v=miVRaoR_8xQ

>>47159
Lol, didn't click!

>>47159

Dis gon’ be gud. [gets the popcorn]

So! Having watched the new Plinkett review, I can tell you this: He had more criticism for the state of the Star Wars franchise and Hollywood’s risk aversion by way of “soft reboots” and storytelling clichés than he did for The Force Awakens. But what criticism he had for TFA seemed pretty on the rolling robot ball—especially the bits about an over-reliance on comedy and the film’s lack of any kind of sex/“heart”.

>>47163

Yeah, that whole bit about diversity was just…ugh. This review was easily one of their most underwhelming, especially when taking the Prequel Trilogy reviews into account. And I get it—TFA wasn’t an outright horrible film like the Prequel films were, so there wasn’t much they could rag on here. But of all the hills to die on, the diversity issue was one they actually chose?

He actually very specifically says that the diversity bit was a good thing.

I mean RLM are a bunch of fucking weirdos that hang out with Landis and say dumb shit sometimes, but in this case he's absolutely on point: It's good that they did it, and they did it well, but kids wouldn't have given a shit either way, only us adults.

>>47165

>kids wouldn't have given a shit either way

And how does he know that? How can he know that?

Also, >>47165:

>He actually very specifically says that the diversity bit was a good thing.

Considering how he talked about the cast’s diverse makeup all but being a corporate mandate from Disney—who he railed against earlier in the video as a bland, soulless, risk-averse corporate machine that sucks the life out of anything it touches (Star Wars included)—I don’t get the impression that he believes it was a good idea.

>>47167
>Considering how he talked about the cast’s diverse makeup all but being a corporate mandate
Which it probably was. That doesn't make it a bad thing. His comments on Disney-As-Machine are accurate, they totally are risk averse and they've got Star Wars on an assembly line (hopefully a more solid one than the Marvel line).
>>47166
>And how does he know that? How can he know that?
He doesn't and neither do you. It's a guess. A guess I agree with. Kids will like Star Wars because it's Star Wars. That's not an insane statement.

He says he thinks it's a good thing that it's there. It is. He also says it's a product of Disney that Lucas would have never done. It's also that. Kids probably wouldn't have cared if it wasn't there (though they'll subconsciously process it probably, normalization and all that), but WE would have so it's there for us.

You can get after them for busting out a hot "SJW" awhile back about something or other because that's pandering to fuckers but on this they're more or less on point and also make a point to single out and shit on said fuckers.

>>47165
>but kids wouldn't have given a shit
Kids don't give a shit about diversity in the sense that they don't care for adults' preconcieved notions on it.
ie they didn't dislike Korra because it didn't feature a man - they were ambivalent on the protagonist.

That doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect or that kids don't see gender or race.

To say Star Wars didn't have any identity politics just because it was white is a pretty ignorant assumption for good ol Mike to make. But that speaks more on him than it does the Star Wars franchise.

>>47170
>they were ambivalent on the protagonist
And that's what I'm saying and I think what he was trying to say, albeit in the most roundabout way possible. Kids don't like or dislike things based on that. It affects them in a different way. That doesn't mean (speaking for myself since he didn't get into this) that it's not important to have it in stuff for kids since it normalizes it for them (media being a form of socialization like anything else is), but it's not something that they are cognizant of in the same sense.

As for saying that star wars didn't have any identity politics, he addresses that it did by talking about Lucas' white Californian world I feel.

>>47163
>>47164

I'm so glad the alt-right has taken up to championing the criticisms of TFA in the comments section so that my dislike and criticisms of the movie's themes and story, which I think is actually weaker than any of the Prequels, can now be completely written off as "lol mysogonistic basement-dwelling nerds lol XD."

TFA has better acting and special effects than the Prequels. And those are the easiest things for laymen to grasp. But it is far, /far/ weaker in story structure, internal logic, pacing, characterizations, and world building than any other Star Wars film, and these are things that they failed to really touch upon. I think this video underscores the weakness of Red Letter Media as film reviewers and their ability to only grasp the very obvious. Also, by including "lol political correctness cast" as one of their key arguments in their critique, they damage the critique as a whole. There's a saying for debates: you're only as good as your weakest argument. And while they may be right with their speculations about the motives of the politically-correct casting, this does nothing to actually critique how the film functions as a movie, and only adds fuel to an already inane internet flame-war.

>>47165
>>47169
>>47171 here
I should stress that I think that the reason why I think this is a relevant point for him to bring up is that the review is less a review of the film and more a review of Star Wars as a Thing. It's a complete cutting of ties with any notion of SW as being Lucas' thing or anyone else's and a transition to it being the output of well oiled machine. As to using it as a criticism of the film itself, it's a useless point.

>>47170
>>47171
>they were ambivalent on the protagonist.

The people polled were small boys. The ones who would've "gotten the short end of the stick" so to speak. It wasn't a case of "they dont give a shit" it was them not feeling slighted against for having a GUUUURL PLAY WITH BOYS.

>>47172

>it is far, /far/ weaker in story structure, internal logic, pacing, characterizations, and world building than any other Star Wars film, and these are things that they failed to really touch upon

As I mentioned to Film Crit HULK via Twitter: Captain Phasma’s near-worthless role in the movie, despite all the hype surrounding the character and the casting of Gwendolyn Christie in the role, could’ve been a whole segment of the review on its own. Not just to discuss how the film could’ve made the character better (which the review sorta touched on), but how she was a transparent attempt to recapture “the magic” behind Boba Fett, and how the character wasn’t given anything of importance to do in the film (other than “look badass” and “get caught by the rebels”). The whole review came off as RLM not really wanting to rip into TFA because they thought it was at least “good”, so they went after Prequel apologists, the Ring Theory guy, Lucas, and Disney instead—and it’s not that those entities don’t deserve to have their cages rattled, so to speak, but it’s just not the same thing as the Prequel deconstructions, and it shows.

>>47175

Abrams is always a good subject to go after. Star Trek '09 was his resume for the Star Wars gig showing he could handle space epics.

Thing is a lot of the script for The Force Awakens feels a lot closer to some kinda fan fiction he wrote and didn't really want to part with. Almost as bad as Solo Lucas type writing cept at least Lucas did a bit more to establish things and not just recycle a whole movie pretty much beat for beat.

Sure we've got setups on how things will deviate going forward but the movie itself...eh. Its good but its not something I'm going to buy the Blu-Ray at t full price for.

So how pissed will be people at next film and Rey having a heel turn. Snoke dropping Benny like a hot potato because Rey has a much deeper anger and hate to exploit.

>>47177

I’d be all for that, personally. The New Trilogy shouldn’t just be a repeat of the Original Trilogy. A double turn with Kylo and Rey—provided it’s done well—would be the kind of risk that could give the New Trilogy its own identity and a solid direction to go in for Episode 9.

There's literally nothing less interesting than the notion of Kylo switching place with Rey short of just having Christensen back again.

If Rey goes Dark Side, holy shit, that would mean Luke really sucks at being a Jedi master.

>>47180
Remember that you can always blame the writers.

>>47181
Nah, it actually makes sense for Luke not being *that* good at the job. I mean, at best he got a few months of training under Obi-Wan and Yoda (and that's being generous with the timeline). As great as Yoda's intensive course may have been, and as gifted as Luke was, that's not enough to learn all the ins and outs of being a Jedi and how to resist the Dark Side.

>>47180
I still think Adam Driver is gonna Zuko it.

>>47183
Kylo isn't Zuko so much as he's like if Lin murdered Toph and drove Aang into hiding for 20 years.

>>47184
If Toph's contract negotiated her to get killed off in the first movie, that is.
But I see your point.

I'd like to see him try and be good, though. He's got an interesting character design, but I do imagine it would be hard to redeem him after laser-shanking pops.

>>47185
Well if he comes back from the Dark Side and Luke accepts that then I could see frayed relations between Jedi and the Republic.

Which I kinda like that idea. Republic knows they are needed as mediators and protectors. But that one event keeps them from ever being trusted.

The entire interesting thing about Kylo is that he rejected redemption where Vader accepted it, I don't want him, I like Rey as the hero.

Audiences in general are also not liable to embrace the kid that patricided fucking Han Solo either.

>>47188
For the time being. I got the feeling he still felt regretful after he did it, and the novelization (which reflects an earlier version of the movie so it might not be entirely canon at this point) is very explicit about it. He's still capable of going face later on or at least not fully embracing the whole Sith thing, even if I doubt he'll ever be a full hero.

You know, I'd like to see how they would convince Chewie to forget what happened and not break Kylo in half upon seeing him.

Snoke keeps trying to catalyst Ben into a true sith but he just doesn't have that deep well of hate to draw on.

Now Rey. I bet he can make her go full sith with just a bit of isolation and digging into her abandonment issues.

>>47190
I want Chewie to throw Ben into a volcano like it's fucking Tekken.

>>47194
It's like you want Kyo to crawl back out. You have to go Mortal Kombat on the bugger and have Chewie rip his spine out.

What if Snoke purposely trained Kylo wrong, as a joke?

>>47195
But nah he's gotta throw him into the volcano. At which point he suffers almost no damage. Because he's still a loser compared to his grandpa.

>>47197
I can see that. Boy so wanted to be like Grandpa, but couldn't ever get it right. So Snoke just Palpy'd him and just jerked him around for kicks until someone worthy came along.

“We have hope. Rebellions are built on hope!”

//youtube.com/watch?v=sC9abcLLQpI

>>47206
Darth Maul had hope once.

It wasn't fun.

>>47207
Even Jar Jar had hope once.

>>47207
>>47208

Good thing they're both dead/not appearing in this film.

http://www.vulture.com/2016/10/donald-glover-lando-calrissian.html
So Donald Glover has been cast as Lando Calrissian in the Han Solo prequel film.

>>47228

That deal just got better.

>>47229
I pray it'll improve further, though.

Will he be able to pull off that silky smooth conman gambler persona?

Will we see him play a game of Sabbac

>>47346
Probably "borrowed" a ship.

>>47346
Novelization says he got saved by a rando who sent him off in a ship before Finn came to.

>>47371

I thought that YouTube username looked familiar.

//youtube.com/watch?v=IkMPZ7WeDck

So much for Jyn being Rey's mother[ I'm glad it's quashed because it was a stupid theory anyway.

Man, that was an emotional rollercoaster.

Also, Disney may have stumbled upon a way of avoiding giving away a movie's most impactful moments in the trailer. Just shoot another movie after the trailer comes out.

Anyone afraid that the reshoots were intended to lighten the movie's mood can rest easy. It was fucking brutal holy shit my heart.

>>47434

Maybe one of the movies can show us the Battle of Taanab as that was where Lando gets his bona-fides as a general. Also the Battle of Nar Shadda (where afterwards the Falcon changed hands from Lando to Han) would be a neat addition.

>>47434
IN a good or bad way?

>>47437
In an indescribably awesome way, IMHO, but I'm wary about colouring people's perceptions.

//youtube.com/watch?v=U9t-slLl30E

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/12/16/the-unsung-praises-of-the-phantom-menace

I can understand a defense of the Prequel Trilogy's few good points. I cannot, however, understand how someone who writes such a defense can also excuse the quality of those movies.

Rogue One is a real masterpiece. Masterfully written, masterfully acted, masterfully executed. It builds upon the original movies, while doing its own exciting, and often new things. Characters from previous movies come back (through CG magic or actual people) for all the right reasons, and are handled with utmost respect. Apparently the idea to make Rogue One came about before the Disney buyout, and the story was mostly a one man vision, so that probably helped with the quality. Will happily accept this movie as the grand finale for Rebels.

Don't care much for the new trilogy, but will always care for this one.

>>47454

>Characters from previous movies come back (through CG magic or actual people) for all the right reasons, and are handled with utmost respect.

I have heard more than a few objections to the CGI Tarkin because of how people believe it could result in future CGI “resurrections” of dead actors.

>>47455
They believe it "could"? It's going to happen sooner or later, most likely much sooner than we think, now that the tech is kinda getting there. No way around it, hell it's probably become a great bussiness for the estates of dead actors, selling their likenesses.

>>47456
Hollywood has been gearing up for that for a long time. Being able to digitally recreate dead actors was always going to be a thing eventually.

Heck I was a bit weirded out seeing '90s edition RDJ in Civil War.

>>47457
Yeah, back when Final Fantasy was released (15 years ago, right?), there was plenty of buzz about digital replacements of actors.

>>47458

Yea, though when interlaced with real actors it seems to be less jarring than full CGI, though that may just be because the tech is better now.

>>47457

Thing is, something like RDJ’s de-aging, the unused footage of Marlon Brando used in Superman Returns, the farewell to Paul Walker that was Fast & Furious 7, or the CGI Tarkin worry me, but they do not make me fear for the replacement of live actors or the full-on resurrection of dead actors. All those things made sense in context. The possibility of another Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow situation is what scares me. That movie used archival video and audio of Sir Laurence Olivier to insert him into a movie that was filmed more than a decade after his death and had no connection to his body of work as a living actor. If Hollywood resurrects actors this way — to appear in movies that have no context to the actor’s body of work, just to answer a “wouldn’t it be cool if…” question — we will have on our hands an issue that only financial boycotts can resolve.

>>47455
New technology can be used for great good, or..... for great eeeeeeeeeeevil.

You know, while the CGI Tarkin was fine, I did find the CGI Leia a bit distracting. I guess it is because Peter Cushing already had some uncanny facial features? Dunno.

>>47460

Oh you are very much limiting yourself in how far they'll go. They won't just digitally insert or recreate. We will get Replicants since digital still has some limitations that cannot be met from a natural environment

>>47463
Nah it's not just you, her face was oddly shiny and plastic looking compared to Tarkin even in still moments.

>>47465

CGI still cannot do natual renders for all characteristics.

>>47465
I think a big factor was that Tarkin's scenes were all in relative darkness, whereas Leia was shown in a brightly lit room.

I must say this: I liked Rogue One better than TFA, but I liked the leads in TFA *much* better. Especially Daisy Ridley, her Rey was all around much interesting and fun to watch than Felicity Jones' Jyn.

>>47470
Story ≠ characters.

>>47453
>I cannot, however, understand how someone who writes such a defense can also excuse the quality of those movies.

It's funny, because I cannot understand how someone who can excuse the quality of TFA.

//youtube.com/watch?v=8g9cJ5WKZeU

>>47472
Thats cus you're a contrarian.

>>47472
You can understand perfectly well how someone can "excuse" the quality of TFA. You're just pretending not to because your sense of self-worth is built around starting pointless arguments with complete strangers on the internet.

>>47470
Very much this
Jyn felt very flat. She didn't really have anything going on while all the characters around her were much more interesting. By gods did Alan Tudyk kick ass.

Beyond that, the story WAS tons better than TFA.

>>47475
I wouldn't say *tons* better. I mean, it takes ages for the actual plot in Rogue One to start rolling, which would have been fine if they had used that time for character development, but we didn't get much of that either.

>>47476
TFA and Rogue One each did their own thing and both did them extremely well. It's not like it's a competition or anything, they both make Disney massive shedloads of dosh. It's good that the mainline Episodes like TFA stay fun and light-hearted and adventurous with recurring characters we fall in love with, but Rogue One is a triumphant validation of Disney's plan to explore other genres inside the enormous breadth of the Star Wars universe to tell good stories.

>>47477
I'd say TFA fulfilled its role as ANH remake extremely mehwell.

>>47478
I agree MT, how COULD a woman ever learn to fight?

>>47479

Yesss, not loving unconditionally TFA means you hate them women, imrite or imrite.

>>47479
Am I getting Poe's Law'd right now.

>>47474
>You can understand perfectly well how someone can "excuse" the quality of TFA.

I actually cannot. The Prequels got raked over the coals, they were the punchlines for jokes, nearly everyone and their goddamn brother pointed me towards those Red Letter Media video editorials. TFA was worse than each of the Prequel movies (even the Phantom Menace) from a story standpoint, and to me story is king when it comes to movies. Characters need to progress in a logical sense, scenes should have a meaning behind them when they are included, and most of all there needs to be some level of a satisfactory resolution to events. Yet I see people claim TFA is better than Return of the Jedi despite failing at each and every one of those elements. So no, I don't actually understand how people enjoy The Force Awakens.

>>47483
Older fans enjoy it because it is just like the very first Star Wars movie they seen, the one they fell in love with.

Younger fans enjoy it because it is an entertaining fast paced action movie with a female protagonist who actually looks believably strong, even if her writing is bullshit.

Also, do not forget that for a good half of the SW fanbase the movies are just escapism. They turn their brains off when watching them.

/opinion

Guys, bad news: Carrie Fisher had a heart attack while in flight to Los Angeles, and apparently her condition isn't good. Let's hope for the best.

Damn you 2016, you had to be an asshole to the very end.

>>47485
FUCK! DAMN YOU 2016!

I was trying to have a nice Friday with a little bit of checking-in on my usual Internet haunts before I went fully offline to enjoy Christmas. But between >>47483 and the news of Carrie Fisher having a heart attack, this is not a nice Friday. So now I have a few things to say.

>>47483

The Prequel Trilogy received loads of negative criticism for reasons related to story and characterization. Look at the absolute mess that was “The Phantom Menace”. Take a moment to remember the awkward, wooden romance sub-plot of “Attack of the Clones”. Remind yourself of the “oh shit we have to do Vader in this movie” pacing of “Revenge of the Sith”. The entire Prequel Trilogy has structure, characterization, and (especially) dialogue problems that not even George Lucas’s ex-wife could edit away. If they were metaphorically shat upon by audiences and critics, the movies earned that treatment.

By comparison, “The Force Awakens” is, at worst, a mediocre re-tread of “A New Hope” with new characters replacing the older ones. The movie may have problems with characterization and structure — and with trying to be “a ‘Star Wars’ movie” a little too much — but those flaws do not rise to the levels of the Prequel Trilogy’s flaws. Those flaws do not make “The Force Awakens” unwatchable on its own.

And this is where I had planned to bow out and leave things at that and go enjoy the rest of my Christmas weekend…but then>>47484 had to make a post, so now I have something else to say.

If you want to think of Rey’s writing as “bullshit”, you are free to do so. But before you turn that opinion into personal dogma, remember this: In the span of a day (at best), Luke Skywalker went from driving a hovercraft on the desert to piloting an X-Wing in an attack on a heavily fortified space station without any visible training. “A New Hope” gives us no reason to believe Luke has any formal training or experience in piloting anything more than a hovercraft, but he somehow manages to do it — and do it well — on his first try. “The Force Awakens” at least gives us the pretense of Rey being knowledgable of starships and their inner workings through years of scavenging. I can believe she would have at least some basic-level knowledge of how to fly a starship if necessary.

Before you talk about how the writing for Rey is “bullshit” again, ask yourself if any criticism you can levy against her writing can also be applied to any other character in the franchise prior to “The Force Awakens”.

Oh, and one more thing while I have the time: Twister, “mehwell” is not a word. Stop trying to make up words; you are not Shakespeare.

Now let us all go get drunk on eggnog.

Well, it seems that the doctors managed to stabilize her condition and Carrie Fisher is better and considered out of emergency.

>>47483
>TFA was worse than each of the Prequel movies (even the Phantom Menace) from a story standpoint
It objectively wasn't.

>>47488
> “A New Hope” gives us no reason to believe Luke has any formal training or experience in piloting anything more than a hovercraft

There actually is a line of dialogue that he knows how pilot some sort of flying ship (I think the name is T16), and that he has good aim with it.

Also, while it is true that he was flying an X-Wing, he didn't take a lightsaber to an actual combat and didn't outright start using force powers unassisted in that short time span. I don't think Rey is a mary sue or something like that, but saying that she wasn't quite above the level of competence as Luke simply isn't true.

Goddammit, did Carrie really have to have a brush with death just before 2017?

Fucking Hell, man.....

>>47491
Looks like someone paid attention while watching ANH. Yes, they said but not showed, that Luke was known as a great pilot with great aim.

Wish they showed. But on on that budget...

>>47493

He way playing with a model of a T-16 in his garage and had that long rifle that the Sand People broke.

So we got a few good bits.

>>47495
>>47493
>Wish they showed but on that budget...
That's no excuse for bad storytelling. Saying the budget excuses vague and blink-if-you'll-miss-it expo dumps to set up a character's abilities is like saying Manos the Hands of Fate was a good movie hampered by a bad budget.

>>47499

>comparing A New Hope to Manos
>saying A New Hope is bad storytelling because they refer to a skill using dialogue

Wew, lad.

Hey, here's a fun exercise, why does Rey initially reject her call to the hero's journey? You know, that essential stage that communicates the risks involved in the Journey by illustrating what the Hero will have to sacrifice or make changes to? Luke has an actual reason that the audience can relate to, his ties to his family farm, the only home he's ever known. Sure he wants to leave with Ben and go on a crazy amazing space adventure, but he also feels the weight of responsibility. Rey has... uhhhhhhh.....!??!??? She might ACTUALLY find out what happened to her parents after they left her on Not-Tatooine? Maybe she just really fucking liked that not-bread they paid her in? And before one of you fuckers say "We'll find out in the next film!" NO. FUCKING STOP. You include at least a fake reason for the audience to latch onto or something that you plan to introduce a twist on later, you don't just have FUCKING NOTHING.

You don't even have to have a Refusal of the Call. They included it in TFA because they were badly aping A New Hope without understanding the underyling Hero's Journey theory that went into the story. That's the major problem with TFA. It is a surface-level copying of storytelling mechanics, with no understanding of WHY you include them.

>>47500
If her parents come back to Jakku and she's not there, she might never know who she is or where she came from. That you actually said this before the stale bread quip shows that TFA handled its exposition and its refusal of the call perfectly well.

Again, it's not a competition. They're not better or worse than each other, enjoying one doesn't obligate you to hate the other, they're just different, and that's fine.

>>47500
No matter how profile an artifact of culture might be, it's not above criticism. The fact is that they used showing rather than telling to establish a character's skill in an area that would be vital later, and that's sloppy, no matter how many nerds have masturbated to Princess Leia in a slave outfit. The fact that you're so quick to go to bat to it with no actual defense for it other than that "It's A New Hope!" is pretty strong evidence that you're blinded by nostalgia rather than arguing from a good faith position.

>>47502
Clearly I shouldn't post this late at night. It's supposed to be "no matter how high profile", and "The fact is they used telling rather than showing."

Risking joining the argument but... in what manner did they "show not tell" that Rey could be a skillfull starship pilot, before she took the helm of the Falcon and started doing all those crazy maneuvers and outsmarted actual trained pilots? If A New Hope is bad because of it, then the same applies to TFA.

Funny enough, this is actually averted in Phantom Menace. Lil' Anakin IS shown to possess some skill (being a racing pilot in a very hostile circuit, as opposes to just using a hover vehicle for transportation like Luke and Rey do), and when he does get his hands in a fighter... he doesn't really do anything THAT extraordinary with it.

>>47504
In TFA, if my memory serves me correctly, Rey says she never flown a SPACEplane before.

Which means no prior experience.

But who needs experience when you can have THE FORCE?

>>47504
Rey's starship piloting skills weren't key to the climax of the movie. The scenes where they showed off her piloting skills were the sorts of scenes Luke needed to have in ANH before doing the Death Star run.

>>47506

why did the scene involving her doing absurd stunts in the star destroy graveyard exist in the first place?

Oh yeah, cuz "we need an action beat" here.

It adds all sort of ridiculous incoherent elements to the story too. What, they sent two tie fighters after an escaping ship and then... nothing? Huh? What? They don't even make the jump to light speed after leaving the planet. What on earth is Kylo Ren or the first order even /doing/ during that time? At least in A New Hope they just avoid any entanglements other than ground troops and then blow out of the area at light speed before the Empire can send a TIE fighter squadron off at them.

>>47508
So in your universe, adoptions don't exist and no child has ever had an absentee parent. Okay, gotcha.

>>47509
I kinda get what he means, plus she could simply leave a holo-thingie at home or tell somebody in Jakku "if some fellows ask for me, tell them i'll be at X". It's an universe with FTL communications and where everybody can go to one side to the other of the galaxy with ease, that sort of problem should be a non-issue.

Personally, I simply take Rey's refusal as her being afraid to leave home, shitty as Jakku was that's all she knew.

>>47509

Interesting you bring that up because Luke has both of those, but his backstory is crafted in a way to explain how he's been able to survive in such a harsh climate (Taken in by his uncle and aunt) and develops what few ties he has to his adoptive home. Rey has ffffffffffuuuuuucking nothing. I would love to have seen some more development and some explanation of how she ended up on Jakku, who took care of her (or how on earth she took care of herself), maybe develop what gave her the seemingly unwaveringly belief that her folks were coming back for her, and gladly sacrificed a useless action beat of the Falcon flying with TIE fighters or Han Solo being chased by giant alien squids to get such information.

>>47515
Any kind of Parental figure seeing her off or knowing Abrams massive fanfiction bent being killed off by first order would have sufficed. Hell even something showing them and just information that that died a few years prior would have worked.

>>47515
>some explanation of how she ended up on Jakku, who took care of her (or how on earth she took care of herself)
we saw all of these things

http://people.com/movies/carrie-fisher-dies/

With only a few days left, 2016 still doesn't stop.

>>47518

GODFUCKINGDAMMIT.

>>47518

God dammit 2016, you really are a Cursed Year.

America no longer deserves to have icons like her I guess.

Well......... she did say "certain politician only wins over my dead body"........... did she curse her fate?

>>47523
Shut up you worthless ass.

So with all her scenes already shot for the next film. What now?

Hearing some sources that she never regained consciousness after the incident which is never a good sign. Damn shame. Wish them the best and all.

>>47523

Twister, you can be a complete imbecile at times. This is one of those times.

>>47523

Don't worry, I laughed, Twister.

and before you guys come at me for saying I'm /pol/ or Trump or whatever, I voted Hillary, I just have a sense of humor.

>>47528
She did say it though.

>>47526
>What now?

I bet somebody involved thought "CGI" upone considering that question.

Hopefully, that very same person slapped him/herself hard afterwards.

>>47531
I assume they'll do what was done with Oliver Reed in Gladiator, using clever editing and digital inserts to grant her a heroic death scene. As with Heath Ledger's Joker they'll want to preserve as much of her performance as possible.

>>47531
Only CGI I'd accept is Paul Walker style headswapping.

>>47536

Disney literally did that in "Rogue One" for Tarkin and Leia.

Rey and Luke snap to attention, sensing through the force Leia has died, their training had finished and Rey was already trying to convince Luke to return. This provides the push he needed.

They go back for the giant multiple planets wide celebration of her life/mornful funeral and through out the movie we hear Rebel forces speak of her saintly work and how she never recovered from the grief of Han's death.

>>47538

Somewhere on Tatooine, those who had been loyal to Jabba the Hutt hear word of the Huttslayer's demise and celebrate.

>>47539
Kylo Ren feels the pull of the light side even stronger as he secretly grieves the destruction he's caused while cursing himself for being so weak.

>>47541

I did not mean it as a complete joke, you know. "Huttslayer" is a canonical nickname for Leia as of this year.

http://nerdist.com/new-star-wars-novel-brings-the-huttslayer-nickname-for-princess-leia-to-canon/

I am not entirely sure "loyal to Jabba the Hutt" is something that actually existed in the SW universe. I mean, in context, Leia's Hutt-Slayer moniker is congratulatory.

>>47543
Well not on Tatooine as other crime lords flowed into fill the gap but if she went into Hutt controlled space that would be a different.

To that note I'd liked to see Nar Shadda and Nal Hutta

Maybe get a little of that in the Solo film.

Everyone needs to see it:
//youtube.com/watch?v=mjHEHuNyvME

//youtube.com/watch?v=upN-7ALj2OU
New Star Wars Rebel trailer.
Getting hype for Old Obi-Wan

>>47548
I did not want that, but guess I don't mind if they execute it well.

Judging by their track record, I say they most likely will.

>>47548
I know this is supposed to be straight up Star Wars The Series

But man its ugly.

>>47553

It's a matter of perspective, really. And his is all wrong.

>>47553
Going to the movies with elemetary schoolers is just asking for problems.

But in all seriousness, I'm doubtful this person watched Empire Strikes Back.

>>47553
Every movie has inconsistencies, your capacity to forgive them is directly proportional to the movie's aesthetic quality. If you're spending inordinate energy nit-picking a movie, it's because the movie failed to grab you on an emotional level and you're looking for reasons why in the plot itself rather than the cinematography framing it.

Which isn't to say that your colleague was 100% correct, since nothing in critical analysis ever is, but creating a spectacle that an audience will happily switch their brains off for is a lot harder than it sounds.

>>47556

>If you're spending inordinate energy nit-picking a movie, it's because the movie failed to grab you on an emotional level and you're looking for reasons why in the plot itself rather than the cinematography framing it.

Or you are part of the team behind CinemaSins. [ding]

>>47555
The person in question thinks Empire is the best.

And if asked why, would probably give me a logical explanation, which would frame them as a hypocrite (which they probably are).

>>47558
Is this friend of yours aware that you are calling him/her an hypocrite over Star Wars?

>>47559
No, not really a friend, a much older person who thinks they're very smart when in fact they are quite dumb.

Okay, really tired of THEYing, might as well stop now.

Why are people still bitching about the Star Wars EU no longer being canon? Those stories aren't going away. People care way too much about what's canon instead of what's good. There are people around me who watch the individual DC cinematic shit not because they like it, but because of how it ties into the overall universe, so they feel like they HAVE to watch it.

/rant

>>47582
What is officially canon is serious business.

>>47582
>>47583

Not like things aren't being added back in. We've already gotten some ships back in along with planets and one of the major players. They just tossed it all to start because to be honest it was a fucking shitshow.

>>47596
Let's just say this:

If they "add back in" the Thrawn Trilogy (with some cosmetic rewrites), and KOTOR 1&2, that would please me very much.

>>47598
I liked that people were griping that Thrawn didn't seem as artistically minded as before. Till it was pointed out he had a the bottom of his Star Destroyer painted up with a mural.

Also Timothy Zahn is writing a book that will be in new canon so that'll catch everything up.

>>47602
>Also Timothy Zahn is writing a book that will be in new canon so that'll catch everything up.
If it does not retcon TFA, I am not interested.

>>47603
>retcon a critically-acclaimed movie that's made Disney more money than god
What on earth made you think that was even a prospect?

>>47606
I never said I believe that would happen.

Doesn't stop me wanting for that.

"Episode VIII" has a title: "The Last Jedi".

>>47614
No doubt to reference Yoda's line from Ep6.

>>47614
Plus a sinister-looking red font instead of the traditional gold, hearkening back to those "Revenge of the Jedi" teaser posters.

>>47621

>what is the possibility that Disney hard reboots the prequel trilogy?

None. They cannot go back in time and undo the creation of the Prequel Trilogy. They cannot undo the canonicity of the Prequel Trilogy, shitty as it is, without enduring the wrath of "Star Wars" fans over yet another major change to the canon. They probably already have vague plans for continuing the franchise after Episode IX, too. Why would Disney try to remake the Prequel Trilogy when there is little-to-no benefit in doing so?

>>47621
"Jedi" is both a singular and a plural, so the title doesn't necessarily have to mean that.

>>47621
>Also, what is the possibility that Disney hard reboots the prequel trilogy?
I won't give a fuck.

>>47625

>they can always reboot it

You mean "remake" it. There is no "reboot" to be had here. And Disney will neither reboot nor remake the entire goddamned Skywalker storyline just so Episodes 1 to 3 of the main "Star Wars" storyline do not suck.

>I thought that the prequal trilogy was already tossed in the Legends bin

The last time I checked, the Prequel Trilogy still exists, and I have not heard of the new Grand Poobahs of "Star Wars" saying the movies are not canon and should not "count". (They may be ignored by future filmmakers and storywriters, but that is not the same as saying they are not canon.) If you have proof that Disney has completely disavowed the Prequel Trilogy to the point of disowning all three movies, feel free to offer that proof. Until you can do that, you can consider the Prequel Trilogy as canon.

>remaking the prequel trilogy can only result in more money, right?

You do realize that the Prequel Trilogy movies had higher box office takes because of a rise in ticket prices and the franchise's increased prominence in pop culture, right?

And yes, there is a distinct possibility that a Prequel Trilogy remake could make more money for Disney. But again: What the hell would be the point besides pure corporate greed? (And that would be the only reason for a Prequel Trilogy remake.)

You can wish and hope and pray and suck every Disney executive's dick for the next decade, but none of that will make any wish for a Prequel Trilogy remake come true. If Disney had any plans for remaking the Prequel Trilogy, why have they not announced such plans already? I mean, if you really believe "Star Wars" fans are aching — begging, even! — to see a Prequel Trilogy remake and Disney would want to make those fans happy no matter what, why would Disney start their dips into the "past" with "Rogue One" or the Young Han Solo movie?

Only a comparative handful of "Star Wars" fans might — might — want a Prequel Trilogy remake. What sucks for them is how the opinions of that handful of fools are not nearly enough to sway the plans of a multi-billion-dollar international media conglomerate.

And Disney will never remake the Original Trilogy. No one will. Those movies are like "Citizen Kane" or "The Godfather", in that their reputation and importance to pop culture will ensure that they will never get a direct remake. This was, in part, the reason why "Ghostbusters" withstood so many different attempts at reboots and remakes until the one we got — and, in part, why the "Ghosbusters" rebake was widely reviled by general audiences. Some movies just cannot and should not be remade, and some franchises cannot and should not be rebooted. "Star Wars" is one of the latter, and the Original Trilogy are three of the former. The major roles of those films may be recast for movies set during the time of the Original Trilogy and the New Trilogy, and that would be both understandable and acceptable — but the Original Trilogy is too culturally "untouchable" to ever be remade.

>>47629

Yes, this is pretty much what I was talking about: The new films cannot override the canonicity of the Prequel Trilogy, but that does not mean new filmmakers will be forced to reference Episodes 1 to 3. I would imagine that, since the Skywalker saga appears to be nearing its end, references to the Prequel Trilogy will be few and far between, if they even happen at all.

And I doubt the films will ever get into "the science of the Force" again. That was one of Episode 1's biggest missteps, and it is telling that the following two films never really reference midichlorians again.

I didn't mind the concept of the Midichlorians as much as the sillyness of sticking numerical numbers to signify less and more powerful Jedi, DBZ style.

>>47629
>Disney has the final say on canon
Which is why I don't care anymore. Once Rebels is over, I'm off the ride.

>>47631
The last arc of The Clone Wars made a conscious effort to "re-mystify" the Force, Midichlorians and all. I believe the implication was that the Jedi had grown so technocratic and bureaucratised in the last days of the Republic that they'd grown to see the Force in the same terms. Yoda came to see the error in this, which is why the Midichlorian talk fell into disuse in the original trilogy.

>>47633
Your interpretation.

>>47641

It's a matter of perspective, really.

>>47642
From your point of view :P

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-new-star-wars-aftermath-novel-reveals-the-pitiful-1792481018

This is…this is actually a little depressing. I mean, yeah, I disliked Jar-Jar and all, but good lord.

>>47703
It's kinda pathetic. Yes, nobody likes the character, but that was almost 18 years ago. Just forget it, no amount of shitting on Jar Jar will make "right" him being part of the franchise.

On a whim, I looked up the Darth Vader bit from "Rogue One", and the film's ending was in the "related videos" sidebar.

Even in a camrip (though admittedly a damn good one), the uncanny valley nature of CGI Leia was all too apparent. If that shot had been maybe a couple seconds shorter, the effect might not have been as noticeable.

But hey, judge for yourself (while the video is still up): //youtube.com/watch?v=TfcHJw-6sHk

Oh, and incidentally:

>>47623

Foreign-language versions of "The Last Jedi" subtitle have confirmed that "Jedi", in this context, is indeed a plural.

>>47706
Wasn't that evident in english? Palpatine reffers to the whole bunch of them as "the Jedi", not "Jedis"

>>47707

It was not. "Jedi" is both singular and plural, and Luke seems to be the last remaining (proper) Jedi in the galaxy. Thus, the number of Jedi referred to in the subtitle — one or at least two — was a minor mystery until people learned about the foreign-language subtitles.

By the way if you guys aren't in the mood for eating right now go look up the "Decraniated".

>>47709
>Decraniated

Yea and people thought Lobot had it bad.

Also new book is bringing in some stuff about Sheev along with that Jar Jar. Bringing back his hidden bases that he had all over the place in EU along with a listening post for things in the unknown regions

>>47712
>we killed Han
>but don't worry, we'll give you more Han!

>>47712
I believe Harrelson will be playing Han's mentor. That is the most rampant speculation I had heard, anyway.

>>47713
We are getting Donald Glover as Lando. I will accept a "Young Han Solo" movie if that is part of the bargain.

I wonder who the guy in the upper right of the pic could be playing.

>>47715
Tis a mystery for sure.

>>47715
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess love interest.

>>47712
Guessing one of those gals will be the Rebel Predecessor he had a thing with for a bit back in the day.

>>47712
Let's hope Emilia Clarke doesn't have anything important to do.

>>47778

Quick recap, plz?