Phase Three is the end of an era in Marvel films, in and out of the MCU: the X-Men film franchise will lose the only Logan it’s ever known after Hugh Jackman films the next Wolverine, Robert Downey Jr. and Chris Evans will close out their runs as Iron Man and Captain America with Infinity War—Pt. II, and Infinity War itself will be the climax of a decade-long plan that turned Marvel films into box office juggernauts.
And it all begins with Captain America: Civil War. Here’s the last trailer for the film—complete with the reveal of the MCU’s friendly neighborhood Spider-Man: //youtube.com/watch?v=dKrVegVI0Us
I'm just glad that from reading all of the interviews on the subject that Feige and the Russos seem to have learned the right lessons from the original comic and are doing what they can to avoid it all.
The film has a bit of a bigger problem, though: as Film Crit HULK pointed out on Twitter, Civil War is all about the Avengers going to war over Bucky, and we’ve been given little reason to care about him as a character (in terms of what the films have shown us). It’s an “assumed empathy” problem: Cap cares about Bucky, and audiences care about Cap, so the filmmakers assume everyone in the audience cares about Bucky as a result.
>>45457 The fact the authorities want to murder Bucky in cold blood instead of capturing him for trial when he was superscience-brainwashed into carrying out the crimes he is accused of and had his mind wiped repeatedly to keep him under control is more than reason enough to agree with Steve that this shit is fucked and nonamerican, but its not like we haven't had a chance to see Bucky before the brainwashing and empathize with how horrific the things done to him were to make him into a living weapon.
Plus the previous movies have been about the overseeing committees/organisations being corrupt/incompetent or Tony being a fuck up and causing the problem, not to mention Ross himself is dirty as hell if you go back and watch the Hulk movie and only has his current position due to having powerful friends and backroom politics.
>>45460 People are theorizing that Bucky somehow gets blamed for that building (the one that seems to be hosting some sort of political/diplomatic conference in the trailer) blowing up, and that's the "shit hits the fan" moment, akin to the school incident with the New Warriors in the comic. Interestingly enouhg it seems that T'challa was in that building, so that would explain why he's hunting Bucky so bad.
Speaking of T’challa, go back to the trailer and watch Black Panther chase Bucky again. Not only does he outrun Captain America(!), he does it with a hint of feline flair in the way he moves. (Of particular note: look at how he runs compared to how Cap runs.) Panther has looked like a badass without needing a single line in any of the trailers, and by the time Civil War is over, I bet the Russos will have made a lot of people want to see the Black Panther standalone film.
>>45464 Except you can't even join the police force in America until you are at least 18-21? Enlisting a kid with limited training/experience and throwing him against other (older) superheroes is pretty shady.
>>45467 Except it was super shady in the comics too? It was literally child conscription even if you didn't have a combat-related power with your only offered alternative was it being surgically removed/crippled by the government.
If MCU Stark was about to become Iron Fuhrer from the comics that would be a BAD thing, and we don't need another Cloud 9 situation but with Spiderboy in her place.
Old school thing is Peter thanks to his mutation looks older than fifteen. Comics it was they assumed he was older until he reveals himself and then Cap sends him home till later.
Ah damn Avengers Academy Cloud 9 in particular being one of the most heartbreaking stories in all of that. You made her into a killer, hope you are fucking happy with that. People should have gotten more shit for that event.
>>45471 Well she wasn't any kind of superhero or government assassin when she first appeared, she was just a young girl that loved to fly up where there was no one to show off to and its cold high up in the sky so obviously she wore some practical clothing. Then came war machine all JOIN THE SUPERARMY OR IMMA SHOOT YOU IN THE FACE!
Then in like her first day of training they forced a plasma rifle into her hands and ordered her to dogfight with terrorist Jets.
>>45565 He's just not the same character. He's got a wife and kids so it doesn't really work the same way unless they kill them off cheaply like some rabid Clintasha fans have been hoping for. If they made a miniseries centered all around Kate Bishop though I'd totally be down for it.
Eh, I understand the disappointment. While I was never a 616 Hawkeye fan, I understand that he was a swashbuckling, larger-than-life personality that constantly butted heads with Captain America. Movie Hawkeye is a pretty boring and tame archetype in comparison.
http://collider.com/doctor-strange-benedict-cumberbatch-images/ Dr. Strange is apparently done shooting for now. I'm surprised how closely the costume sticks to the comics and how good it looks. Almost ASM2 level. I really expected them to tone it down and mute the colors but it seems like the collar is the only part that's really changed.
>>45810 That's good though I hope he gets real experts for this. Still though I'd rather they cast someone with known experience in these things and a more solid acting resume so people don't have to wonder about it.
Not that it means much considering it happened for BvS, but early reviews/buzz for Civil War from critics/regular jackoffs who’ve seen the film is positive. Then again, BvS buzz from critics/regular jackoffs who'd seen the film didn’t start hitting social media until, what, a week before its wide release? We still have a month to go before Civil War drops into theaters.
>>45812 Well, Civil War may have been the worse of the two comic book storylines to take inspiration from, but all the interviews from people involved in Civil War were reassuring, whereas the comments Snyder was making, the information we'd been hearing, and half of the trailers they'd been releasing about the film were setting off alarm bells long before it came out.
[DC überfanboy] SO YOU CAN’T HANDLE SERIOUS SUPERHERO FILMS YOU JUST WANT STUFF THAT’S FOR KIDS ASDJGAHGDSJSGHSDJHFDGHDF [/DC überfanboy] Yes I realize it’s a shitty strawman; please don’t take my stupid bullshit seriously.
I'm just glad that so many people seem to love Black Panther, sort of like how well people received Wonder Woman. It's good to hear that audiences are so receptive to their main stars despite not being part of the "White Male Lead" demographic execs are convinced a movie must have to succeed, not to mention all this built-in hype bodes well for their solo films.
Plus i just really dig Black Panther as a character (when he's got good writers). The new solo series for him is pretty good so far.
Seems like people really like Holland's Spider-Man even though he's not involved in the plot very much. Not sure if that's a good thing (that Holland is that superb) or a bad one (that he stands out because the main conflict isn't that interesting).
http://deadline.com/2016/04/tessa-thompson-joins-the-marvel-universe-thor-ragnarok-1201735551/ Interesting. Wonder who she'll be playing. Also I guess it means Portman really is calling it quits with these films. Don't blame her after the whole Patty Jenkins drama.
It's too bad, especially since I like Thor/Sif in the comics, but Sif was never really that well-established as a character in her own right, let alone a love interest to Thor. I'm hoping she does continue showing up elsewhere in the MCU after the Thor trilogy is over, but it has one of the more expendable casts out of all the sub-franchises.
>>45835 Especially the second film. Mediocre as fuck, but having read an article on its fucked-up development it's kind of amazing how they managed to salvage enough of it to make it even coherent at the last minute.
>>45843 Actually I am hearing complaints about Ejiofor, but more in the line of various scattered complaints about how they made a black guy play a villain character therefore Marvel Studios has an anti-black agenda.
First official look at Zemo. Meh. Hearing a lot of criticism of how he's underutilized like other Marvel villains, but given the circumstances of this film I can forgive it in this instance, since Iron Man is more of the primary "villain" while Zemo might go on to form the Thunderbolts later
As long as Zemo doesn't die (I am looking at you, AoU, still not forgiving you for killing Von Strucker so cheaply), I am willing to give the movie a pass from underutilizing him, as it was already clear to me that he would be very peripheral to the plot.
>>45864 Good news I guess. Some reviews let slip that he lives through the film, possibly to do more in the future. He has a very Luthor-like role here, but benefits from having an actor who isn't as scene-ruiningly inappropriate I'm guessing a lot of the naysayers don't know what the character is like in the comics.
>>45887 For the MCU to properly revive a character who actually was confirmed to have died, rather than bringing back a character whose "death" was ambiguous would open a Pandora's box that's not really worth it and destroy any ability to generate tension in future movies, similar to what happened with Superman at the end of BvS. Some people will bring up Coulson but it's a little different since it happened in a continuity that's basically separate from the films, and the nature of his revival was incorporated into a season-long storyline that makes it hard to repeat.
>>45839 I heard the real reason they used Tilda Swinton is because they don't want to anger the Chinese government by setting it in Tibet If that's the case though they fucked up because now even the Chinese are probably going to get pissed.
>>45902 That plan was thankfully nixed, but the rest of it is still pretty outrageous.
When this brouhaha erupted I was rolling my eyes at everyone who assumed Scarlett Johanssen would be playing a Japanese character, in a story set in Japan, surrounded by other Japanese people played by whites. Now I'm not sure who's the bigger idiot, the studio for doing exactly that or myself for expecting anything different.
>>45903 You know I woulda been fine if they were doing a setting transplant like The Departed or The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. But this is really stupid. Still don't know why people keep hammering Benedict Cumberbatch like crazy for being a racist because he's playing Khan and Doctor Strange instead of stepping aside for POC actors yet nobody ever gives Scarlett Johanssen the same amount of flack for doing the same thing except even worse this time around because of the yellow-washing thing.
https://weminoredinfilm.com/2016/04/19/jon-favreau-joss-whedon-are-gravitating-back-toward-the-marvel-cinematic-universe/ Huh well that's interesting. Though I'm pretty sure money was the reason they had Whedon on for Avengers, I already had a feeling Favreau's relationship with them couldn't have been that bad if he was still willing to play Tony's bodyguard in Iron Man 3.
>>45913 Think he could find something for Nathan Fillion and some others from Castle as that series winds down. Heck you've got multiple series going on to their last abbreviated seasons that could open up some new Netflix Marvel spots.
Maybe even some of those Star Wars series ideas that have been kicking around, have him be not Han Solo... again.
Could easy have enough to make a Star Wars Bounty Hunters show.
Blacklist Person of Interest Grimm Castle Bones (David Boreanaz also being one of Whedon's likely choices for new series with him to soon be unattached) Sleepy Hollow
Michael Weatherly leaving NCIS could easy play a smarmy bounty hunter gambler. (Since the poor bastard is likely typecast no matter what he wants to do)
Likely forgotten a few in this years deluge.
Networks are clearing house on the action/crime dramas save for CBS and their NCIS franchise and the Police Procedurals. Always worth looking to snap some of those up. Plenty have that wit that Whedon is partial to (which I don't think is a bad thing and can work well in situations).
Rumor is that the Inhumans movie is getting canceled, or at least having a moratorium placed on it as a super low-priority project. The official reason is so it doesn't clash with the upcoming Indiana Jones sequel, but the other rumors are that the only reason it was put on the slate was because Feige needed it to get Black Panther and Captain Marvel greenlit since Perlmutter has been pushing the Inhumans hard on the comic side of things, and now that he's no longer working with him he's no longer as obligated to make it happen.
Granted a lot of this information is coming from Rich Johnston who's known for his incredibly shoddy reporting, but it would make sense given the other rumors about them, and if it was the case I actually wouldn't mind.
On the Fox side of things, a new X-Men: Apocalypse trailer supposedly drops tomorrow—and this one is supposed to have a big mutant reveal (in other words, it's going to feature Wolverine in there somewhere).
Two years ago I was kicking myself for not keeping up with Agents of Shield when it segued beautifully with The Winter Soldier, but right now I've got three seasons-worth of content to catch up on across three different Marvel properties, and I physically have neither the time nor the resources to do so before Civil War enters cinemas in the UK.
You ever get to that stage where catching up even on media you enjoy starts feeling like "homework"?
>>46007 >The Age of Ultron tie in was them saying "We're working on a thing" for a half season that turned out to be the Helicarrier. I kept up with the second season and...yeah, that was what put me off catching up with the third season for movie tie-in purposes. It's not a bad show by any means, it's just that there's so much better Marvel stuff I want to watch first (I definitely want to watch Jessica Jones...and I just remembered that I haven't seen the second season of Agent Carter yet, so that's four seasons-worth of content to catch up on).
Yeah, for all of Marvel’s success, Iron Man and Captain America still aren’t on the same level in terms of mainstream pop culture awareness as Batman and Superman. Lots of people thought the “brand recognition” of BvS alone would propel it to higher box office numbers than it actually did. (Even I thought it would do better than it did based only on its being, well, BvS.)
>>46022 But this is where things differed. DC/WB going on existing Brand Recognition but going against the character perceptions. Disney acknowledged that some of their Marvel game wasn't as strong and have worked to build that up putting Cap on to level Supes should be as a moral authority for inner world actions.
Superman should have been the DC Cap as odd as that sounds now. No just a brooding psychological distressed Super Being.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2016/05/01/box-office-captain-america-civil-war-nabs-avengers-sized-200-2m-overseas-debut/#119cf0b93be8 >Disney estimates the opening on Cap 3 is 5% below Ultron; 26% ahead of Iron Man 3 and The Avengers; and +157% ahead of Captain America: The Winter Soldier when comparing the same suite of territories and all at today’s exchange rates. Ultron went on to be the biggest superhero movie of all time internationally with $946M ($893M at current rates). >The top overseas plays for Steve Rogers vs Tony Stark this frame were Korea ($28.9M), Mexico ($20.6M), the UK ($20.5M), Brazil ($12.3M) and Australia ($10.9M). >The Anthony- and Joe-Russo helmed pic also delivered $9.6M on 205 overseas IMAX screens. The $47K per screen average is nearly double that of Captain America: Winter Soldier.
You know, Zemo was quite different from the comics, but I must admit that I thoroughly liked this version of the character. Gotta love that he is just one guy with no superpowers, no evil empire, no secret organization, and yet he's managed to hurt the Avengers in ways that no other villain has.
>>46058 What did you think of Black Panther and Spider-Man? Did they do a good job of making Tony and Cap's sides feel balanced out, or give their allies a good motivation for the sides they took? How was Sharon? I heard she got the short end of the stick in terms of characterization and romantic buildup.
>>46059 > Black Panther He is a charming, suave, and noble. Pretty damn perfect, IMO. Plus, he gets his badass female bodyguards, wasn't expecting them to appear.
> Spider-Man He is a veritable fountain of quips and battle banter, and even gets called out for it by the Falcon! I loved the guy, and the people at the theater laughed at everything he said. Plus, I got the impression that he was more physically powerful than the other two live action Spideys, which is a good thing.
> Did they do a good job of making Tony and Cap's sides feel balanced out I'd say yes. It helps that the Sokovia Accords are nowhere near as aggresive as the SHRA. Cap actually was this close to signing in, and without Zemo things wouldn't have gotten anywhere as bad as they did in the movie.
> How was Sharon? She helps Cap a LOT. Remember that "you plant yourself like a tree" speech in the comics? She actually says it, which imbues Cap with newfound resolve. That scene involves some pretty spoilery stuff, so I am just going to mention that involved a very emotional moment for Cap. Her characterization was good IMO, but the romantic buildup depends heavily in the fact that it was implied that Cap had a thing for that cute neighbor that ended up being a SHIELD agent, otherwise it comes up out of nowhere.
Oh, and she is involved in one of my favorite funny moments in the film. Bucky was SO proud of his pal!
So Infinity War Part 1 and 2 are going to get new names to make it clear they're not two halves of the same story but two separate ones. Thinking one of them might get changed to Infinity Gauntlet which is the actual storyline it's referencing.
>>46060 Good to know, though as one of the people who didn't buy Cap's interest in Sharon I'm disappointed they didn't do so hot with the romance. The impression I got was he really didn't appreciate her lying to him about herself, and nobody important was there to see how she stuck her neck out for him and saved the guy in the SHIELD HQ, so she'd have to prove herself in front of him before things would move forward for them.
Gotta say it, Whedon has no excuse for the mess Age of Ultron was. The Russo bros had to juggle with even more characters, their story was more complex, and even had to deal with a forced plug to another movie (and I don't recall them ever whining about it!), and yet Civil War flows much better.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/avengers/marvel-studios-very-nearly-sold-the-film-rights-to-captain-america-and-a141334 >Sony Thor >WB Captain America Nolancap might've been OK maybe. But Snyder can fuck right off.
>>46066 The tone was all over the place and it was never really consistent. The Big Battle was a bunch of jokes and quips and the whole thing felt like a comedy routine. The movie carries on as a sequel to two different movies and it just feels tiring.
I dunno, I never seem to get it right with my movie judgements. I didn't like Iron Man 3 either and everyone loved it, for example. I do hear some people had the same problems I had which at least feels nice so you might feel the same way but. I won't bet on it.
I wanted to put my feelings out there, but if you enjoyed it and disagree - hey, I envy you.
>>46074 >The Big Battle was a bunch of jokes and quips and the whole thing felt like a comedy routine.
With one exception (Panther and Bucky), everybody involved in the battle is NOT fighting to destroy the other team, and almost all of them know each other personally, if not are outright friends. Even newcomers like Peter or Lang have deep admiration for people on the other side of the confontation, and were clearly having the time of their lives. If there is one superhero battle where a friendly and jovial atmosphere is justified, that's it.
And Spider-Man is a big snarker in the comics, so his being a motormouth during the fight makes sense. (Lang is the only other "comedy" character in the fight, so his being the yin to Spidey's yang in that way also makes sense.)
I enjoyed the film, but for some reason I really disliked the filming of action scenes compared to the other Avengers movies. The camera constantly moving in the early fights (opening action beat and the Bucky chase) made everything very hard to focus on, blurry, and I actually felt a little motion sick at points. Maybe I'm the only one? During the later large fight the camera was pulled back far enough that everything was fine.
>>46083 Nah that's a reasonably common complaint among normal people. Too many cuts, this was a bit of a problem in the last movie too but it thankfully evens out as the film goes on. Apparently the Russos got the John Wick guys on board to help.
So apparently a lot of Black Panther's lines in this movie (which were great btw) were written by Ryan Coogler himself, who will be doing partial writing duty for the solo film. And since the Captain America trilogy shows the importance of a good script above even questionable directing, I'm double hyped.
>“We wanted [audiences to choose a side, but we didn’t want anyone to be right or wrong,” said co-writer Christopher Markus. “The appeal of it is no one is clearly on the side of righteousness. There’s a good argument to be made [with Iron Man] and there’s a good argument to be made [with Captain America].”
I guess this is the right thread for it too. Reviews are starting to come out for X-Men Apocalypse and they're all... pretty mixed. Oh well. Not really that surprised since the trailers didn't impress me very much, but hopefully the spinoff movies do better, because fuck Deadpool was awesome.
>>46099 The X-Men movie series is over a decade old and not only has to fight its own fatigue, but compete with the current oversaturated superhero market as well. And while Bryan Singer can do great, as evidence by Days of Future Past, he's also capable of churning out a Superman Returns. For the next movie - set for the 90s era - it really needs a fresh face behind the camera, because Singer has done everything he can with the franchise.
I wouldn't mind a return of Matthew Vaughn, if he can pull himself away from a non-Mark Millar movie.
The X-Men film franchise has eight films to its name (yes I'm counting the Wolverine films; no I'm not counting Deadpool). Of the seven released so far, two of them have been great (X2, DoFP), one has been good (X-Men), and the rest have been anywhere from mediocre to crap. Early buzz on Apocalypse puts it somewhere on the high end of “mediocre”. That really isn’t a good track record for a tentpole franchise. After Apocalypse and Wolverine 3, Fox might want to see about maybe transitioning the franchise to TV/Netflix, because as a film franchise, it’s not doing so well.
>>46103 No, thats the thing. That is exactly what people are saying about Tony, as well. Tony supporters are wrong, simple enough. Handing control of the avengers over to a 177 government council? Each with their own agendas and benefits to being selective?
Plus, it being the fuckin UN, where every motion takes a month?
You see where I'm going with this? Taking a step back and seeing the whole thing with a little self awareness now?
If you actually listened to Tony's position his opinion was that this was an option they could control, "add amendments" to later, and was more of a token gesture of good faith to the governments to rebuild trust.
>>46104 >Handing control of the avengers over to a 177 government council?
The Avengers at any given moment have enough firepower to defy the combined NATO militaries. Hell, not even talking about their top powerhouses, given enough prep-time Tony alone could solo the entire US armed forces. They are more or less a superpower geopolitically speaking, one that doesn't even have a border and operates freely on a global scale, all in the hands of a handful of individuals.
I am asking you, if that happened in our world, would you be perfectly OK with it?
>but they are good guys!
Yes, I know they are. You know. We all know. Good, morally sound, and incorruptible. Thing is, within context, the people in the MCU earth do not know this for sure, they do not possess our god's view. Cap's argument is that the UN "is run by people with agendas and agendas change", which is indeed true, but (again, within context) couldn't the same be said of the Avengers?
These are interesting questions, and I actually wish the whole Sokovia Accords plot was more central to the film, because it made the pro-reg side at least reasonable instead of making everybody involved a supervillain like they did in the comics.
>>46156 in a field already glutted with the stuff. Lego, Skylanders, that other interactive collection thing Disney Marvel put out that was wiped out before this one. Just too many for any one to actually have a strong connection.
>>46176 Do you know anything about Captain America?
Its also sort of been a running theme of the previous movies in the canon too, with the control organisations being corrupt or stupid or infiltrated by nazis are every turn, makes it pretty logical that Cap would be wary of handing the reigns over to them especially when he sees them doing shady shit that is clearly Not Freedom.
>>46178 The previous movie gave Cap a very good reason to be distrustful of the accords, considering the very organization he trusted as oversight ended up trying to make him Public Enemy No. 1 and turned his brother a tortured slave zombie for 70 years.
The one with Doc Ock is considered a "great film"? I mean... it's cheesy, campy fun I guess, about as subtle as a cement truck with some of its characters, but I don't know how anyone could justify calling it a "great film"...
>>46251 It is, but rumored leaks indicate it's actually based on Chitauri tech which could be just as cool. http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/exclusive-scoop-the-villains-and-costume-of-spider-man-homecoming-204
>>46549 First Class had a great setup to capturing classic X-men. Then Singer came back and sucked all the life out of it again.
I've love to see Jubilee in a series. Get the same actress if they could since she was so terribly shorted in that crappy Apoc film. But if Singer is around I can bet it'll be another casting couch of his usual fare. Crud.
>>46663 Nah that's too comedy leaning especially nowadays. A Howard the Duck and She-Hulk show would be better played straight IMO. It's still interacting with the more wacky side of Marvel Superhero stuff but nowhere near off the wall humor.