>>44579 He waned to make sequels, but was conflicted about it. He knew he was quite old. He also knew he hasn't been able to follow up on his old promise of returning to experimental films. He ALSO knew he had to let go and resign from being in charge of SW at some point.
So, he did all three. A part of him regrets not killing off the franchise, another part wishes he would have made the sequels himself, and yet another part is happy his burden has finally been lifted. He is free now, free of Star Wars.
Lucas just said that selling SW to Disney was like selling his children to white slavers. Not only the comment is insensitive if not downright offensive, it's painting himself as a victim. He didn't NEED to sell the IP, and nobody put a gun to his head to do so. He did it because he didn't care anymore, and now has the nerve to complain.
>>44622 >>44621 Did Disney have any active role in shaping that perception or did fans just assume that she would be beforehand because of her design? There's three movies to go, I already expected that not all of the new introduced characters would have time to shine.
>>44648 I like Kylo Ren but I hate how his fans are trying to turn him into the next Loki. Dude did some shitty things, but the movie didn't have the time or interest to flesh the more sympathetic side of him in detail, so instead he just looks like a self-absorbed whiner.
>>44656 Why did he have that arm, anyways? I mean, it was funny for a gag ("You probably didn't recognize me!"), but then he lost it by the end of the movie. I kind of assumed that that was just going to be the new look for him.
>>44659 The in-universe explanation will be told in one of those new SW comics Marvel is publishing.
As for the real "why", Abrams said that he wanted to show the passage of time for all the characters, so the red arm was a reminder that even Threepio has been doing stuff since the last time we saw him.
the real "why" is what >>44661 said. You have the C-3PO figures, but now buy the C-3PO figures with RED ARMS!
I doubt JJ even thought about "showing the passage of time" with regards to the movie, at any rate he certainly didn't do that with R2 who had about as much screentime as 3PO and had more of an impact on the story.
>>44688 Not him, but in the prequels the swordmaster is Nick Gillard, a stunt coordinator who kinda knows how to handle a sword, which is why everything is so flashy and with all sorts of cool looking acrobatics and nonsensical flips and kicks. In contrast, the OT had Bob Anderson as the swordmaster, an actual olympic fencer.
>>44690 And how japanese swords are used isn't exactly doing backflips and spinning your weapon like it was a glowstick in a rave party. I am not sure what the arguement is here, the fact that the lightsaber fighting in the prequels is unrealistic and overdone IS the point, it's supposed to show that properly trained Jedis in their prime are crazy superhuman sonofbitches. I don't particulary like how the result looked onscreen, but I do understand the logic behind it.
>>44699 What's the appeal of that ship beyond the usual Twilight fans, self-inserters, or taboo fetishizers? I understand liking it as a one-sided thing because the novel strongly implies what was only slightly hinted at in the movie. Hell, I'm kind of one myself. But at no point does Rey seem like she'd ever reciprocate, especially not not after everything Kylo pulled already.
Damnit, only on Tumblr will followers get so mortally offended by you reblogging comics making fun of a character that they'll fill your inbox with messages calling you a a racist who somehow supports their actions, just because you'd rather laugh at them than post about how mad they make you.
>>44703 >>44713 Reciprocation CANONICALLY is of little to no importance to shippers. It's hot and the chemistry is hot to imagine. One sided relationships can be fun in there own way. A really good reason, which is probably why I'm still shipping Kylo/Rey, even though I don't actually foresee it becoming legit, is I am a still recovering zutaran. The appeal is if you are into rough sex, bondage, rape, mind control, comfort sex, domination, angst and a laundry list more of tags that fanfiction love to use for smut.
I think what annoys me the most is, I joked about the EU along with everyone else. Like anything that had gotten that big, it had some screwball and downright legendarily bad stories in it. When they announced everything became un-canon, all I could think was "Good! Finally we can get rid of stories like 'Han Solo's kid going Sith' and Chewbacca needlessly dying in an sad attempt to raise the stakes." But it also had a lot of great stories in it. And I thought the new movie would take the good parts of the EU and leave behind the bad. Instead it feels like we took the bad and left the good. And now people still make fun of the EU because it's an ingrained practice at this point, its reputation is tarnished beyond repair, but I can't help but wistfully remember the universe that gave me the Rogue Squadron series, Thrawn and Mara Jade, and even the misadventures of Tag & Bink.
I try to get over it but my thoughts keep going back to it, and I think "I shouldn't have said all those terrible things about the EU."
>>44728 >But it also had a lot of great stories in it
It still has. Those books, comics and such, they still do exist. Ninjas hired by Disney did not break into your home at night and emptied your shelved off EU material.
I am frankly at loss at the idea of apparently being so dependant of canonicity, of endorsement and approval by either Lucas or the Disney bunch, because who gives a damn? Thrawn remains one cool badass mofo, canon be damned. Nothing changes that.
>>44734 I like the idea of Finn having canon childlike crushes on both Finn and Rey but them not reciprocating. Why can't more people get one-sided pairings in general? They can be plenty cute/interesting in their own way.
>>44747 Enlighten me please. I only learned of the trilogy yesterday, and aside from it - being very good - being approved and liked by good ol' Georgie at the time - contradicting the current canon in some places I know nothing about it.
>>44751 First and foremost, remember that a lot of EU was completely retarded and out of character and shit. Not everything there was good, plus a lot of inconsistencies and contradictions.
Second, the system worked like this: movies are A-canon, Thrawn is B-canon, cartoon and comic spinoffs are C-canon, so forth. Everything is canon until the movies contradict. 99% of EU was temporarily supported fanfiction. During TCW, the team would pick and choose the best EU plot ideas and polish, improve, and incorporate into the show.
NOW, any new "officially cannon" works can steal ideas from the EU and make it canon again.
A very few select things from the EU, like KOTOR, are kinda canon, until Lucasfilm announces they're not.
>>44750 Except for the bit where they butchered Mandalore for TCW. That's the thing that really irks me, when they take something good and twist it up into crap and that crap holds more weight than the good stuff. >>44736 Sweet fuck, the two characters I hate most...
Yes and no. The official policy was that the only real solid "this actually happened" canon was the movies, everything else according to Lucasfilm was "sure, why not, as long as it doesn't contradict the movies". If you look into it, before the Disney acquisition, there was five levels of canon material.
>>44760 Considering how much of the exact same treatment the Jedi had, I'm not considering the Mandolorians to have been that badly tarnished by their time in the books. Star Wars has always been blatant fan fiction.
>>44765 >>44768 >The only real thing that separates "fanfiction" from "sequel written by a different person" is the level of quality. >What about bad quality official stuff and really good quality fanfiction? But you were talking about that! Your dichotomy between "fanfiction" and "sequel written by a different person", being defined by quality is silly as there exist both quality fanfiction AND bad official stuff. By saying that quality is the defining trait between 'fanfic' and 'official' makes 'good quality fanfiction' into not fanfiction (even though by definition of it being FICTION MADE BY FANS) and 'bad quality official' into fanfiction. Here you are dictating what is and is not fanfiction not if it is official or made by a fan, but by the quality of it, which quality is subjective.
In summation; learn how to english language or logic. Or stop using the term 'fanfiction' to describe stuff that you don't like, please.
>>44773 The distinction between "official work" and fanfiction is hard to see sometimes, especially in a serialized franchise with multiple writers. BUT, usually when it's complete shit, it tends to be fanfiction. A good 50% of all fanfiction is completely terrible, 50% of works by original creators is okay. An average weak movie has nothing on My Immortal.
Fanfiction is a dirty word, just accept it. Whenever a new writer makes a sequel, and people hate it, it gets labeled as fanfiction.
And I don't understand why you're so angry. I didn't call any particular thing you like as bad. Are you angry because EU is no longer canon?
So watching the movie a second time and finding that it still didn't solve my problem, does anyone think they kind of dropped the ball on making a case for Kylo Ren's moral ambiguity? Granted it's implied he's already pretty far gone, and I still think he's a solid character because of his immaturity alone, but a lot of his talk about feeling the pull of the light side and having a spark of good in him that he's tried to extinguish, or the idea that he was once a heroic figure who was seduced to the dark side, rang kinda hollow, even before he gutted Han. Suffered from a lot of classic telling without showing like the prequel trilogy did.
Maybe the Han Solo side story movie will cover a bit of that. Hopefully not though since it would be a huge copout.
>>44780 I keep getting the most retarded fan-theory bullshit recommended to me on Youtube.
No, internet, Rey is not Obi-Wan's long-lost granddaughter because that makes no dramatic sense.
Speculation is fun and all, but for god's sake don't just shove out the first derivative thought balloon that pops into your head. Try to imagine "when this revelation is screamed out by the antagonist over a bottomless pit in the middle of a thunderstorm, will it leave the general audience astonished or utterly fucking baffled?"
>>44780 Is it stupid to get annoyed at fanart prettying Kylo Ren up and giving him a smaller nose and such? He's supposed to be all weird and ugly and goofy and generally awkward looking under that mask and that's exactly a big part of what makes him so great, damnit.
Luke found Plagueis's records on creating life and further speculation from Sheev that it could be done via a cloning chamber as a gestation device.
Luke did what he did and willed Rey into being. Or Rey is a descendent of Vader and Dr. Aphra. Another plan he put into motion to carry out his vengeance if he failed. But time went on, the Empire was destroyed and Vader was lost so Aphra moved on with her child who grew and had a child of their own.
I find that very plausible outcome since they have made a big thing of everything that happens in the comics being in canon.
>>44797 On that note, it's interesting that Luke's planet is called Ach-to which contains the Hebrew for brother and the official script states that Luke knows "who" Rey is, which suggests that Rey's identity is something worth knowing rather than a literal everywoman who lucked herself into the powers and position needed to save the galaxy, similar to Finn.
>>44864 There's a ton of interesting stuff in the novels including tihs bit. She knows it's ultimately Snoke's fault, and blames herself the most for being impulsive in deciding to have him shipped off to Luke. Also the reason her and Han's marriage fell apart was because they both each blamed themselves for what happened. A lot of it I wish made it into the final film. Just a matter of a single extra line or so and so much would be better.
>>44871 Not really that books are the superior medium so much as different in a way that provides certain advantages, such as additional insight on characters whose thoughts we couldn't see or additional backstory which gets cut for reasons like pacing, them coming up with a better alternative, or just being plain boring to people who aren't huge lore nerds.
It's weird, coming out of the theater my favorite characters were definitely Finn and Rey and I hated Kylo for being such an obnoxious twat, but now a month he's my favorite by far. All the heroes are solid and their acting was spot on, but they're too archetypical to really linger in the mind, whereas I really want to know what's this dude's long game and what exactly the fuck happened to him as a kid.
>>44906 >It's weird, coming out of the theater my favorite characters were definitely Finn and Rey and I hated Kylo for being such an obnoxious twat, but now a month he's my favorite by far. All the heroes are solid and their acting was spot on, but they're too archetypical to really linger in the mind, whereas I really want to know what's this dude's long game and what exactly the fuck happened to him as a kid.
The thing I like about Kylo is the same thing most people give him shit about--his silly temper tantrums and tryhard attitude are WONDERFUL to see in a villain, especially in a setting like Star Wars where it's explicitly stated that unchecked anger leads to the dark side--this is exactly the side effect we SHOULD be seeing more often in Sith Lords.
>>44909 Making stuff more complicated is apparently there's a lot of cut scenes and introspection in the novelization that indicate Kylo Ren is a more of a sensitive and empathetic guy than the movie made him out to be. Supposedly some of it was actually filmed but left out of the final cut, either because it was bad for pacing or they changed their minds later on and wanted to take the character in a different direction.
>>44909 >his silly temper tantrums and tryhard attitude are WONDERFUL to see in a villain, especially in a setting like Star Wars
Obviously it's all an opinion but that's like saying it'd be wonderful for a Lord of the Rings sequel to feature an edgy ugly cunt villain wearing a SAURON WAS RIGHT shirt. Bonus points if they're Samwise's son. In my opinion it's a terrible fit for a series that has always had a more classical good vs. evil architecture to its story.
>“I’ve spoken with Disney people, and they were completely blindsided by the reaction to the new Star Wars characters,” Marcotte went on to say. “They put a huge investment into marketing and merchandizing the Kylo Ren character. They presumed he would be the big breakout role from the film. They were completely surprised when it was Rey everyone identified with and wanted to see more of. Now they’re stuck with vast amounts of Kylo Ren product that is not moving, and a tidal wave of complaints about a lack of Rey items.”
>>44924 >>44925 Personally I feel like him surviving to rejoin the side of good or at least stop being a villain, and having to live with the guilt of his actions, would actually be the harsher punishment than him staying evil and then dying, unless he literally becomes Sith Satan.
>>44925 >Plus I don't need another redeemed Sith Lord.
Well, we didn't need another power trio, or another cute droid, or another death star, or another sand planet, or another expository wrinkly midget alien, or another badass cool villain henchperson who doesn't actually do anything badass or cool, and yet here we are!
>>44926 They cast a guy whose specialty is in playing cringy loser manchildren and he's no different here (not that he did a bad job at acting here or anything). I don't know why they'd expect anything otherwise, unless there was bad communication between merchandising and the people actually making the movie.
>>44956 Good article but then they had to put that huge "IS REY A MARY SUE?!" video at the bottom and my mind just fizzled (protip: she's not, but I'm still tired of hearing the arguments either pro OR anti). Seriously though did they not talk to the film crew at all? Inexplicable teen fangirl following aside, all the fans I've seen of Kylo Ren (and I guess I'd include myself among them) are grown ass adults. He's not the kind of character who appeals to children, Rey is, and if they did I would be very worried about their mental health.
With that said, the movie does not do a good job at explaining why she is so hypercompetent, which I can see why would raise some eyebrows.
Like, in ANH at least there is a bit of dialogue that establishes that he has experience piloting a starship, and the deleted-but-not-anymore scene with Biggs establishes that he is a good pilot before getting in his X-Wing. Lil' Anakin in Phantom Menace had a ton of experience being a racing pilot, and yet once he gets in a starfighter he more or less lucked his way to sucess and wasn't entirely sure of what he was doing (all while being assisted by R2). In Force Awakens, there is nothing that explains me why Rey (a poor girl living in squalor, barely making ends meet) could hop into the Falcon and instantly know how to fly it like the best.
Some would say that SW is not serious business and such things don't matter, and I say yes, internal logic and consistency DO matter.
>>44960 This. There ARE perfectly plausible and justifiable reasons for Rey's competency in everything, and ones which one could deduce given enough time to linger on it. However the movie does a poor job of conveying that to the viewer, which I consider a fault of the narrative in general rather than Rey specifically.
Yea more lines that are simply rehashes simlar to Luke's T-16 line would have been fine. "Super Star Destroyer graveyard is a perfect place to practice flying." Spent too much time playing with the secret daddy bit.
>>44956 Out of curiosity, how much difficulty have posters here had in tracking down Rey toys? Not necessarily to purchase, just as a "ground-level market research for a lark" thought experiment?
Anecdotally (bearing in mind I live in Southeast London) my experience has been that the flagship Disney stores would stock Rey figures and Rey costumes alongside the other characters but local supermarkets sell little besides acres upon acres of Kylo Rens (with the occasional Finn and Phasma to break the monotony). The Disney store in Stratford has taken a while to stock Reys in anything approaching equivalent numbers to her co-stars, but to their credit she's caught up and is now displayed prominently. As far as I can tell, though, Woolwich's super-sized Tesco has never stocked a single Rey figure, and it wasn't like they were skimping on the Star Wars merch, they had multiple dedicated aisle-ends full of toys. Now their Star Wars toys are on post-Xmas clearance and it's wall-to-wall Kylo Ren landfill.
I've seen Rey figures online and enough fedora-wearing mouth-breathing #HeresReyYouDamnFeminazis pics to know that the toys are out there, it's just that nobody stocks the buggers. They sell out day one, they don't get restocked days two-fifteen, and in the meantime the lorries are reversing with nothing but Kylo Ren Kylo Ren Kylo Ren piling out the back. She's the main character, it's crazy that she's so hard to find.
>>44958 I'd dispute that the fans haven't warned to him, there's more than enough art online to show that he's struck a chord with many fans, it's just that they fell in love with the ranty wannabe emo side of him that just needs a teenage fangirl's tender affection and a hard motherly punch in the face, rather than the Cooldude McBadass the toymakers expected him to be.
>>44925 Well, if the novelization is any indication, the intent behind his character was supposed to be not so much "redeemed Sith Lord" and more that "groomed to be evil but too much of a natural softie to commit", kind of the reverse of Anakin who wanted to be a noble Jedi but let his id control him too much. Granted that aspect of Kylo Ren didn't come across very well during the movie, and it's possible they dropped it altogether to make him a more straightforward kook, but you get a lot of words like "sensitive" and "compassionate" and Snoke basically calls him too much of a pussy to be a good Sith.
>>44964 That and he's just a lot of fun to rib on in a sort of affectionate way. Too lame to be the cool badass kids look up to and merchandisers wanted him to be, but still just competent and scary enough to be taken more seriously than General Grievous.
>>44967 Haven't read the whole thing for myself but people have been posting large passages of it all over the Internet. Obviously there's going to be huge spoilers for anyone who's somehow not seen the movie yet and still cares about watching it for themselves.
“[Snoke] knew our child would be strong with the Force. That he was born with equal potential for good or evil.”
“You knew this from the beginning? Why didn’t you tell me?”
She sighed. “Many reasons. I was hoping that I was wrong, that it wasn’t true. I hoped I could sway him, turn him away from the dark side, without having to involve you.” A small smile appeared. “You had— you have— wonderful qualities, Han, but patience and understanding were never among them. I was afraid that your reactions would only drive him farther to the dark side. I thought I could shield him from Snoke’s influence and you from what was happening.”
Her voice dropped. “It’s clear now that I was wrong. Whether your involvement would have made a difference, we’ll never know.”
He had trouble believing what he was hearing. “So Snoke was watching our son.”
“Always,” she told him. “From the shadows, in the beginning, even before I realized what was happening, he was manipulating everything, pulling our son toward the dark side. But nothing’s impossible, Han. Not even now, at this late time. I have this feeling that if anyone can save him— it’s you.”
Not much on what he was like pre-Snoke, just that his dad hadn't seen him since he was a teenager which is probably when he officially made his turn. Another interesting point is it shows him explicitly more remorseful over the big murder and falling to the ground feeling weak afterwards, which I don't think happened in the movie at all.
>>44964 >Now their Star Wars toys are on post-Xmas clearance and it's wall-to-wall Kylo Ren landfill.
Here's the thing: That just means Kylo Ren isn't selling. Rey was in the initial waves. But so were other characters both important and unimportant. As far as I can tell, she wasn't even really shortpacked, just... not available in as many sublines as Finn and Kylo.
>>44981 I kept an eye on the Tesco shelves (the supermarket's on the way back from my commute) and I cannot recall Rey ever gracing the Star Wars aisles. Like you said, the toys were out there, but it seems to have never occurred to the stores ordering them that some people might quite like to own a figure of the main fucking character.
This is anecdotal, of course, but while people are leaning on Hasbro I'd say the real problem was management at the end-point. The shops themselves just didn't "get" the film they were trying to make a quick buck off of.
>>44986 >"The Force Awakens Sucks or How I learned to stop worrying and love Star Wars the Phantom Menace" Okay, before I click on this, I need a written guarantee in triplicate that it won't give me brain cancer.
Saw a Rey, she has the normal problem with the Hasbro Legends type figures too much paint makes her face oddly flat since it obsecures the sculpt opposed to Finn which is just the shiny plastic, looks better. Rey does come with a BB8 which may be why it gets snapped up.
>>45019 Okay, I get that taste is subjective and all that, so people saying they prefer the prequels to TFA doesn't make them "wrong" or anything, but I still find the opinion utterly baffling.
I'm not "riven with hatred" towards the prequels, but seeing how much better the era is handled in The Clone Wars just goes to show that the same material could be made compelling and fun and interesting if Lucas had just delegated a lot more.
>>45098 Very impressive, but the description is misleading. It was recreated with the media that preceded ANH, not all of which inspired George, and some of the things he may not even have seen at the time.
>>45103 Although JJ Abrams said in interviews that his development in the movies was supposed to show the rise of a villain to parallel Rey growing into a traditional hero. I really hope it's misdirection though, the old version from the novel seems to take a more interesting route with Rey having a voice inside her head telling her to kill while Kylo Ren constantly feels guilt and regret and both of them seem to be pulled towards the center. The movies having Rey actually giving in to her violent urges going down the dark path at least for a while, and Kylo Ren getting to turn Zuko before the very last minute would both make for something more interesting than a repeat of the traditional hero and villain narratives.
>>45105 We've already gotten the point that something is drawing him towards the light side and he's actively resisting it.
Rey falls to the dark side over some broken heart or similar just as Kylo rescues her. Kylo talks to his uncle about his revelation he's been running from for years. Just as they get word that Rey is gone and she stole a ship and Artoo lets out a solemn whistle.
"What do you mean "We lose more Skywalkers that way"?"
Is there any reason why Finn fans hate Kylo Ren so much? I see a lot of talk from them about how the only reason Kylo Ren even has any fans at all is because he's a Straight White Male and how awful of a person you must be if you like him or even want to see him redeemed at all, and how if people really had any self awareness they'd see him for the monster he is. Or how Adam Diver is a fucking asshole for stealing John Boyega's fame and blahblahblah, and how the fact that Kylo Ren has fans at all is proof all Star Wars fans aside from them are racists. Like, a ton of Finn or John Boyega also double as rabid Kylo Ren hate blogs. But the weird thing is I never ever see the same thing coming from Poe Dameron fans, except for the ones who mostly like him because he gets shipped with Finn, even though he's also a likely target for actual racistm, and even though Kylo Ren was way shittier to him than he was to Finn.
Is it just people trying to mask their jealousy or something else? Or does something about Finn's character just make him really popular with assholes, kind of like how the fact that Kylo Ren is a jerk makes him appealing to the Twitards who want heal him through the power of love and kindness? It's not even so much that I like Kylo Ren more than Finn, but having to constantly wade through all this bullshit to get to the Finn fanart and fun Boyega stuff is really tiresome.
>>45127 I think I've seen some of the posts you're talking about and it's definitely people being butthurt that their favorite character isn't more popular. It's hilarious to see what could pass for a Redditor fedora post on Tumblr of all places if you change just a few words. "Waaaah why don't people like my fave more? He's a Nice Guy! Fandom never wants the Nice Guys. All you other fans are shallow bitches who love (white) jerks]! And the more problematic, the better!" [insert emotional manipulation, guilt tripping, and a facade of a moral crusade as an excuse to get more of their fave]
>>45127 I don't know but these folks sound kinda entitled. As the above articles on merch indicate Finn is way more popular with the mainstream audience than Kylo Ren is. Pretty much the only people who love Kylo Ren without a heavy dose of deprecation are fangirl types who don't come anywhere close to the majority of fandom, and even then those types still like Finn a lot anyway. He just isn't their fave. Also while more Finn fanart and the like is nice, holy shit can people stop being dicks to artists for not catering to their every whim? I've seen multiple artists get bashed for it (this is actually a mild example) and I wish these people were trolling but knowing Tumblr they're probably legit.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-bloodline-will-offer-862118 Interesting. Of the three OT main characters Leia is the one I'm most curious about what happened to. Too bad the author's repertoire seems to be more along the lines of Twilight-esque stuff rather than political drama, though it could just be because she knows that shit would sell.
http://www.people.com/article/star-wars-episode-8-production-laura-dern-benicio-del-toro Benicio Del Toro officially announced as a for Star Wars 8, along with Laura Dern and Kelly Marie Tran. Not sure why so many people are fixated on Thrawn as a possible role for him. There's no room for him in the new continuity.
In fairness, this movie is about the original mission to steal the plans for the Death Star—making it a direct precursor to A New Hope—and it’s the first spinoff film ever attempted by the franchise, so going with the equivalent of “comfort food” makes it a slightly safer bet.
But I do hope that the next Star Wars Story takes us into brand-new territory.
>>45796 >I never wanted to know how the plans to the Death Star were stolen. We've known like 40 different versions of this story. >I may actually enjoy this one, but I am done seeing Star Wars in theaters. >The last star wars in theaters was great, I'm done ????
You got it anon, I'm 100% sexist. That's the reason why I didn't like it. I also hated movies like Aliens because it starred a woman, and I certainly detest the wretched show Steven Universe because again, the rock people involved are all woman-like. It's good we have a warrior for social causes like you around to expose my obvious and flagrant evil sexism at work.
Or perhaps there will be no relation at all with the rest of the new characters in the main trilogy. I hate when stories develop to a point where EVERYBODY seems to be family or related in some way, the worst kind of contrivance IMO.