Man what a fucking crazy year this has been for video games. Lots of great AAA stuff and indie all around, I certainly didn't expect this and Read Only Memories to come out of nowhere and slip into my 2nd and 3rd place slots.
Seriously, Genocide runs are designed to be a pain in the ass. Do not attempt unless you're really patient or a masochist. Pacifist runs are actually only mildly more challenging than because of the health cap, but if you're decent at dodging then it's not that much of a problem.
>>197894 They're only a pain in the ass because you need to clear the area of enemies deliberately. Honestly, the game makes you feel like crap for killing all these characters. If you don't feel like crap then the game rewards you by making you feel accomplished by having all the antagonists shake in fear at you and even more so with how the plot progresses.
>>197899 For most enemies, talking gets the same reaction as sparing if you do it enough. With her it didn't, at least in the demo, and it took a few rounds of sparing for it to stsrt giving different dialoges.
Ugh, one of the first things on my dash this afternoon was a bunch of drama because some people are adamant that Frisk is canon nonbinary and people who refer to them as "he" or "she" are misgendering them and should go to hell. I'm very certain I remember reading somewhere that Toby Fox said Frisk is supposed to be the same gender as whatever the player is, though. Meaning they can be canonically anything, can't they?
Please tell me this isn't going to be a repeat of the Hanji Zoe drama llama all over again. Sage for wankery.
>>198096 Yeah, exactly. I see their point, but there's more nuance to it which makes the whole X = Y situation silly. Some NB people use gendered pronounces (interchangeably too, sometimes!). Sometimes kids just wanna cause an impression with their social circle than just outright having a discussion on it.
>>198092 The game is deliberately ambiguous, and people took the deliberate ambiguous as canon representation. Those getting mad over it are the same who insist that Samus is transgender, simply because people will say she's not.
>>198100 >simply because people will say she's not. You mean because literally the opposite of that happened. The conflict here is the intent of the dev who said it. As either "lol she's manly because she's a man" or not.
Either way its a valid interpretation and hey, there's no reason it can't be true.
>>198182 Sans is his support. Drops range from useless socks to a range of healing items (burgers, fries, ketchup, spaghetti ("Sans stay out of my section of the fridge") to the rare chance he'll just 'port in and TK smash all opponents off the platform
>>198231 The game triggers every board on 4chan I think. It got mentioned a few times in a Homestuck thread on /co/ and some people blew up over it. They weren't arguing about keeping it on topic either, just talking shit about the fanbase.
It's popular enough with enough of the right people that 4chan hates it. Is the fanbase really that bad? Like, worse than other fanbases? I really haven't been involved with the fan community for this at all.
>>198234 4chan is more inappropriately fixated with fanbases than they are creators' sex lives, and that's saying a lot. No, of course its not a terribad fanbase. Its an ample one, which allows all sorts of content being made. But its obvious they hate anything with more fans outside the site than in.
>>198244 >I see +4chan as situated in the same 4chan Country, just in an area with a milder climate. I think it's more of a Venn diagram thing. It's cool that lots of people on here are keyed into 4chan and the content that arises from it, but for those of us who've sworn off the place it's nice to have a paddling-pool alternative we can swim in.
>>198414 Nah, it's not popular with the GameFAQs demographic or else the site and /v/ wouldn't be full of people bitching about an "SJW" game winning. Most of it is because it's new and the people into it are more social media savvy. As a GameFAQs moderator pointed out a lot of the traffic came from places like Reddit (and most likely Tumblr). Surprisingly little botting involved while everyone else (including even the rest of 4Chan) laughs at them. SMW might be the better game overall but it's not necessarily even considered the best in its series and the people old enough to love it probably don't care for these kinds of polls in general.
I just googled "Asgore" because the part where he takes out his trident is great, especially with that theme and the fanbase really does look awful (and by awful I mean it looks like it really got to the 12-17 demographic).
But if people don't like media based on fans I don't know how anyone likes anything
>198421 Shit, for some reason I didn't include the question in there--I meant to ask if that's why some people ended up not liking the game. I'm not in the loop since I don't browse /v/ or tumblr and was curious. Sorry about that
>>198441 Undertale attracts a pretty wide demographic. Naturally there's going to be the annoying kind of fans but pretty much anyone with decent motor skills can enjoy it, veterans and "casual" gamers alike. People are just mad that it's not catering purely to them.
>>198469 It took me a while to figure out, too, but when it specifically said "You can't run away" when you turn green and then I noticed she was turning me red again for certain attacks, it became clear. It was subtle, but the game *was* giving you all the clues you needed to put that together.
What's with all the people calling themselves "kin" and claiming they're literally the Undertale characters in this life? And not even in an RP way, a lot of Undertale artists on Tumblr are starting to put notes on their blogs telling people not to call themselves character-kin when they reblog. I thought this was a fad that died a year or two ago when Homestuck was still new. But now it seems to be coming back in full force.
>>198481 >What's with all the people calling themselves "kin" and claiming they're literally the Undertale characters in this life? This happens with a lot of things that get popular with Tumblr. Just let it pass and enjoy it try to enjoy the good fan content. Or just try to ignore it altogether.
That being said, do you have any links to said people? I'm curious to see what they're like.
Pretty much the best tactic possible. A lot of the people doing this are either teens or in their very early twenties; if they’re still doing this shit in a decade, they’re either socially maladjusted to the point where nothing can fix them, mentally unstable, or some weird combination of the two. (And yes, as someone who has been “Sage Freehaven” for essentially the past 15 years, I’m well aware of the irony in my statement.)
Really the only reaction one should have to Tumblr doing something silly/stupid is to laugh at them, maybe while pointing. I don't get letting a stupid fanbase paint your opinion of a thing. Internet's pretty big, it's not too hard to ignore such a small piece of it if it bothers you.
I always pictured Frisk, the fallen child, and Asriel to all be around 9-ish years old or at least physically around there, maybe 12 at the oldest...also I misread "Mister Clever" as Master Chief at first and was disappointed to find the truth.
Frisk is ungendered for the benefit of the player. That includes NB, Trans, Genderfluid or whatnot. If someone's being a dick about it, that's that, but you can't reasonably argue any interpretation is essentially wrong.
>>198551 >They'll do the same thing if you say Mettaton is a male.
I doubt that. I've seen Tumblr, they're quite happy to accept Mettaton as male--because it makes him transgendered. Ghosts are referred to with gender neutral pronouns, including past-Mettaton when he was just a ghost and not a ghost in a robot, and his journal even specifically talks about feeling more himself than ever now that he has a body. That sort of thing is very sympathetic to the socially liberal side of Tumblr, especially since it doesn't erase non binary characters since they still have Napstablook and Frisk and Chara to embrace as NB.
What I meant to say is that, it's fairly obvious that Mettaton is a play on the "feminine man dancer" character archetype commonly found in anime and the like. I highly doubt that he's intentionally "transgender" and I also doubt Toby Fox was following some kind of agenda when creating the characters.
>>198553 >What I meant to say is that, it's fairly obvious that That is your interpretation. Mettaton as a transgender narrative fits fairly simply to a lot of people. >agenda Does character variety have to be an "agenda?"
>>198556 >Unfortunately yes. He's a Homestuck, dude. Exploring species and societies with alternative takes on gender and sexuality is bread and butter for Homestucks. There doesn't have to be an agenda to make them want to ask "what if?" It's a Science Fiction staple. You've just become oversensitive to it by hanging out on 4chan too much and thinking everything is about choosing sides between /b/ and tumblr.
>>198553 He's probably not literally transgender, but his backstory lays on the subtext extremely strongly in the same way X-Men can act as an allegory for a lot of things. There's enough ambiguity that neither belief is unreasonable. It's different from people claiming that Papyrus or Sans are trans, for example. And yes there is plenty of that, though I haven't seen anybody who does get mean about it yet.
It's only when people insist that he must be 100% transgender because of things like his former house being full of pink, therefore he MUST have been coded as female as opposed to feminine male or no-gender (because a lot of these supposedly open-minded people sure love reinforcing old-fashioned Eurocentric gender roles) and anyone who disagrees is necessarily transphobic, that it gets really fucked up.
>>198550 Nah, I've seen people who get aggressive towards people for gendering Frisk according to the binary in fanart, or for failing to tag their art/fic with a warning for giving Frisk a gender, or using female/male instead of dfab/dmab with neutral pronouns. It's not just people personally headcanoning Frisk as NB/trans which is perfectly fine, it's people legit going out of their way to attack others for the crime of having different opinions. But this kind of thing (harassing complete strangers for having different headcanons, even if they're not bothering anyone, instead of everybody being a gray blob hivemind) is a universal problem with not just the Undertale fandom or even social justice issues but Tumblr's userbase in general.
No, I know that Anon was prolly just venting or complaining, I was just making an offhand comment. Some people really do get this massive bug up their ass about referring to Frisk as he or she and they get all "ugh, get this garbage off my dash," and talking about "erasure" and my favorite "why do you hate non binary people?! Why do you wanna take this away?!"
It's dumb. Luckily, it's usually just a matter of doing something else. That junk's as easy to find as it is to ignore.
>>198572 The thing about the classics is that they don't tend to bring out the passionate voting blocks that new games do. I don't necessarily think Undertale is a better game than Mario 64, or even--in the cosmic timescale--more popular. But I think Undertale has a shot of beating it, at least this year. Popularity ebbs and flows, and Undertale is at the peak of its popularity right now while Mario 64--much like Pokemon RBY and Fallout 3--has settled into the comfortable area of nostalgia popularity.
Eh, Pokémon was an edge case—despite its popularity as a franchise, the original games aren’t industry-changers on the level of SM64. And as >>198574 says, the older Pokémon games have hit that “nostalgia popularity” level, and Undertale is in the peak of its popularity (I’m sure there are groups ready to go for the SM64 “battle”). A victory for Undertale against SM64 is at least somewhat probable, given the win over Pokémon.
But if it wins there, it’ll have to go up against either Melee or (more likely) FF7. And if—IF—Undertale pulls out a miracle there and makes it to the final, it will likely be going up against a Zelda game (my money would be on Ocarina of Time). The chances of Undertale winning that poll would be even worse than the chances of it beating SM64. And if the truly improbable (Undertale wins the whole damn thing) comes to pass, everyone pissed about the poll will write the result off as little more than recency bias (based on Undertale being one of the newer games in the tournament) combined with "coordinated campaigns" to stack the deck in Undertale's favor, making this whole thing even more worthless than it already is.
No.198576 Politics Thread: The Liberal Agenda Edition
Undertale just beat Mario 64 in the GameFAQs poll, and its next round is the Semifinals against Super Smash Bros. Melee. Chances are if it makes it to the Finals it will have to beat either Ocarina of Time or Link to the Past, though it's possible it'll face Mario RPG or Metal Gear Solid 3 instead.
Hey guys, just wanna make a note here. I was one of the first people to play the game as soon as it came out, but call me slowpoke (No, not you, Justice); I usually don't go around looking for dicussions on everything, really, much less with those toxic parts of pretty much every fandom going around, so I don't know if people already considered this.
I don't know how many of you named the "fallen child" after your own name, thinking the the "fallen child" was the same child you play at first, and also the usual "why not? let's be in this story", only to find out later at the game that you were the pure representation of evil, game-wise, in consequence as how a player usually does many runs, resetting the game's progress, taking what one would call "bad routes" for trivial reasons and what not, only for amusement. This, of course, came to the mind of a lot of people shortly later after reaching this point, so nothing new from that part. However, I felt there was still something missing, because you see, the characters (sans and asriel, overall) pretty much always reminded you of your "being" regardless the route you would choose. I think the pacifist route is the worst at hitting you in this spot, because they would always talk about the "fallen child" as the freaking devil itself, but as "frisk" as a goddamn messiah; so you as the player, thinking that you were leading "frisk" to a pacifist run, taking the best possible actions with the best possible results, only to find out none of these merits belonged to you, but frisk. You felt left out, excluded, with no love, and possibly jealous. I don't know you, but despite never making a genocide route, the true ending was rather bittersweet for me for this reason.
Which leads me to think, is Toby toying with us in this matter? Could this be part of something involving the player as well in the future? Possible awesome update saving the "fallen child", too? That would be too good to happen, maybe I'm just overthinking it, but certainly awesome, though.
>>198645 The Fallen Child is only really spoken of as though he were "the devil" in the genocide route, when they (i.e. you) are urging Frisk to muder everyone. The Pacifist route only acknowledged that they might not have been "the best" person, but also that it seemed they were trying to escape from something pretty trying, and that likely contributed to their not-quite-as-messianic-as-Frisk attitude.
But it's become a popular theory within the fandom that the Fallen Child's attitude does reflect your own, and that in the Pacifist run, they really *are* redeemed in the same way that Frisk was. Because it was their memories and their affection for Asriel that reached out and saved Asriel, not Frisk's own--as Frisk had never met Asriel other than in his Flowey form. They might believe in the inherent redeemability of Asriel, but it was the Chara in Frisk that got through to Asriel.
>>198734 Don't have the link but one of the mods actually made a post about this. According to them a chunk of the Melee votes were botted and excised, but the Undertale votes were legit and that most of the referrals for Undertale didn't even come from Tumblr like all the antifags claimed but from Reddit. It's possible they were full of shit and just trying to spite the userbase though. If I had to mod them so would I.
>>198871 >[what] makes you think that Undertale is a kid's game? I think Fox has said the game was meant to be mostly family-friendly. Even if there's creepy stuff, there's little in the way of graphic violence or profanity.
>>198874 I don't know why he would say that. There are a couple instances of blood, one blatant screamer, and the entirety of one of the final bosses. That plus the general immersion of the player to the point of extending into the real world would've given me nightmares as a kid, and possibly actually scarred me. I suppose if you do a true ending run it's pretty family-friendly, but I certainly can't say that about the other paths.
>>198877 I would've been creeped out by Giygas, but not "scared to turn on the game" creeped out. Plus Earthbound came out at a time when the ESRB was not yet mature, games weren't considered art, and the idea of Nintendo releasing a game that wasn't all-ages appropriate was just plain poppycock.
Had Undertale been rated it would've been rated T, at the very least.
>>198883 I'd say the comparison is pretty apt, honestly.
I can't think of any games that were rated T, M or AO just because they were scary. It's just that scary games usually have violence or sexual imagery or something, so they get a higher rating. If you can think of any exceptions feel free to say so.
I'm not trying to be controversial or anything, just scatterblasting my thoughts. Sorry if I came off as rude.
>>198885 Slender: The Arrival is rated T just because it's scary. ESRB claims "blood and violence" but there actually is none in the game. Fatal Frame is similarly rated T: a few ghosts have a bit of black&white blood on them, but besides that there's no actual gore or even any violence towards the player.
>>198924 If you call Papyrus he has a bunch where he fanboys over Mettaton and it's implied he has a crush on him. Aside from that all that happens is Mettaton's leg shows up near the end and Papyrus gawks over it.
Is anti-pedophilia the big new SJ rage of the moment? Within the last month I've seen artists from at least three nonoverlapping fandoms besides this one get harassed and forced to quit drawing altogether for supposed pedophilia because they drew innocuous shipping fanart, even when they always aged up the child characters or just portrayed it as a one-sided crush.
Ironically the people who get it the hardest and get sent the nastiest most overtly hateful comments by far are always East Asian. Even white people, the more obvious target, usually get a few passive aggressive comments or "wtf you doing" but then it kinda stops. But with the East Asian artists, even when they do apologize they continue to get hatemail for days. A few of them actually quit drawing altogether which is fucking awful because they literally didn't even do anything wrong in the first place.
>>198941 >>198942 >>198943 Yeah but that's porn, which I kinda get even if I personally disagree strongly. But people are getting attacked for fucking G-rated stuff. People are literally getting told to they should burn in hell over fucking chibis and pecks on the cheek, some of the tamest shit ever.
>>198941 >>198939 I suspect it's not racism per se, so much as these people are on a giant power trip and are intentionally going after people who they know don't have as good a command of English and therefore can't defend themselves so easily. I've seen similar stuff happen to Japanese artists regarding (usually spurious) claims of whitewashing back when Homestuck and Attack on Titan were still big, not helped by the fact that Japan doesn't have the same perspective on racial dynamics that the Americas do.
Thinking about it I guess it still does count as a sort of racism when you consider it's essentially targeting a particular ethnic group specifically because they're easier to bully.
>>198946 I'm not the one calling them that. Besides if anything these kinds of people who are more interested in starting fights for the sake of it than social change are who the term was coined for in its original sense, before it coopted by people not already inside the SJ sphere.
>>199176 I forgot to mention that this videos mistake of Papyrus being a Starman is a really sad mistake of not enough research or remembering that Papyrus's costume is just that, a costume. I also don't know what to think about the theory of Sans's being Ness is 100% legit, but I'm willing to except that Undertale exists in the Earthbound/Mother.
>>199178 He had actually been good with FNAF up to that point, too. Maybe it wasn't game-accurate always but at the very least made for entertaining watches. But when he started going all "Scott Cawthon, you fucked up hahah. Wait what do you mean I got some facts wrong? Nice try, but no, I'm right." he just up and lost that bit of cred with a whoooole bunch of people.
Got myself a free simple MIDI player for MacOS. Listening to the MIDI files, PIANO ONLY, with occasional notes missing (instruments not in database) is an experience everyone should have at least once.
He just feels overused in fanart. I think he's pretty rad in-game, he's interesting! But if I gotta see one more fucking blue eye bullshit, Mercy/Fight-button-duality Gaster-Blaster-worshipping Oncler-fandom level-bone-zone-heaping-helping-of-fuck piece of fanart again, I'll eat my own arms.
>>199244 I know that feeling on the fanfic side. The times I tried looking for what if stories and the like all I could see for miles on end was Sans x Reader (usually female or close enough and unbelievably bad) or weird ABOverse fetish stories about Sans being "in heat". It's awful.
>>199244 You know what confuses me about Sans fanart? The enormous amount of fat fetish stuff. I've seen my share of guys will admit to having a thing for chubby girls, or artists who cater to those tastes. But until now I've never seen women express an interest in chubby men or fattening ever until now. Just other (gay/bi) men. But apparently it's not an interest that sprung up overnight, so where have all these people been hiding until now?
>>199244 Fandom and Fan are terms derived from the word "Fanatic". >>199245 Wow. I just googled ABOverse. http://fanlore.org/wiki/Alpha/Beta/Omega I am now reminded of Pon Farr. >>199249 You obviously were not involved deeply in the Homestuck fandom.
>>199249 I remember on Deviantart someone invented a fantasy race called jams, which were well designed in my opinion. It's a hive species where the males get super bloating collecting food, which, if I remember correctly, they can later dispense through their tails. Though by making the females rare they ensured that most OC fan art revolved around them, because rare occurances are how you get cheap plot hooks.
>>199257 On /co/? Pretty much anything disgusting that could manage to not get immediately deleted.
>>199254 I wasn't, elaborate? Only stuff I know is general wankery that leaked into other fandoms, especially of the kind that resulted in incidents similar to that Steven Universe kerfluffle but on a regular basis. Speaking of which I saw this a while which I thought was funny and relevant. http://imgur.com/jDzvTcw
The funny thing about fandoms is that they used to be fan clubs made by fans for themselves, and you would not be a member unless you were allowed in by existing members. If the fanclub did not like you, you weren't allowed to become a member. You could be a fan, and yet not be in the fandom.
Nowadays, the distinction between "fandom" and "fanbase" is almost non-existent, since anyone could proclaim him/herself to be a member of any fandom, and that would be the end of it. Fandoms are no longer dictatorships under fandom leaders, and in the democratized Internets there are no filters anymore.
Original (older) definitions: – Fanbase = all of the fans – Fandom = a fan club/organization
>>199270 I'm guessing it's partly a lack of distinction between wanting to play the game and wanting to fund the developer? Even if you could get a game for free, by playing it and sharing an opinion based on that you draw more attention to the game, which could get someone else to get the game by paying for it later. Though from there it probably just turned into a popular trend, like how avoiding anything with a major record label deal probably started with people who didn't like the business ethics of those labels but was picked up by peolpe who just thought it was just the cool thing to do.
Though that doesn't cover the community, which I guess is just due to people not liking the idea of not being able to easily talk about a game they play without attracting a bunch of people who annoy them.
Personally, I still love the game and have been working on this big nonsense fan-comic of it for a while now. I just also have to make peace with the fact that people won't like it based on the fact that I'm making the Protagonist an adult male or whatever other reason they decide is reason enough.
>>199273 But it's not like you not funding the developer is going to keep him from being an asshole. Not wanting to give the dev money only makes sense if the dev uses shady exploitative business practices like EA.
>>199278 It actually totally does. I loved Earthworm Jim and Neverhood as a kid, but those games are tainted by association because their creator literally supports taking my rights away from me. He's lost that fight of course but I'm not going to give him my money by buying Armikrog.
>>199278 You can enjoy a thing and still dislike its creator. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. I love Beck's music, but would never give him my money, because he's with Scientology. And in this day and age I don't have to to be able to listen to his music.
>>199277 It's not however perfectly fair to enjoy the fruits of that asshole's labor if you decide not to give them money. You are not entitled to free games just because you can bullshit up a political excuse for why it's okay. Like >>199281 for example is a pretty perfect example of entitled bullshit from someone who wants to pretend like he has principles but really just wants to get free shit.
Piracy is not boycotting, it's just you being a little shit.
>>199273 I think Undertale's unwarranted hate comes from the fact that gamers are so used to companies spending tons of money on advertising to spread the word about their product that they're uncomfortable with the same result coming from simple word-of-mouth and user-generated content like all the memes you see on Tumblr.
>>199307 To be fair, as someone who occasionally makes Undertale fandom content and therefore has to interact with the fanbase semiregularly, large parts of it truly are quite insufferable. But that has more to do with it inheriting a lot of the infamously awful Homestuck fanbase because of Toby Fox as well as Tumblr culture in general than any particular fault of the game itself.
>>199309 Homestuck and Undertale were inspired by some of the same things, so they have stuff in common. I'd say they're pretty similar in tone, in that even when it's an important moment there's almost always a joke or at least some kind of humorous undertone. And they both toy with their medium a lot, I'd say Homestuck does it even more than Undertale does.
>>199316 There's actually a fair number of fursuiters out there for it, it's just that there's so much for everything else that they're harder to spot, and as far as I can tell they're not particularly batshit compared to other furry-friendly fandoms. Mostly because it seems like Sans fans absorbed all the local /d/eviance.
>>199420 >we're all anons here. Obviously not, as there are namefags and tripfags. Please stop projecting your opinions and ideas onto others. >Namefagging is simply to ease communication Yes, but posters still have the option to remain anonymous. But it also allows posters to stand out and/or attach a personality to their posts, or a myriad of other reasons. >and minimize trolling That doesn't stop you. >which forced anonymous inevitably brings. How is that even relevant to the discussion? Name/tripfaging is an option here, as it is on 4chan proper, unlike it is on more traditional forums.