Deals, disounts, free stuff, trades, adds, etc. Overall, anything Steam related goes here.
Because everyday is Steamas.
Offer Ends Thursday at 10am Pacific Time. Grab a copy while you can!
Not until July 4-ish. Kind of odd that there was no Spring Sale.
The First Newell
Well, the main ones are summer and winter, so I guess any other one is merely like something extra.
So I got the Komplete Edition of Mortal Kombat 9 for $4.99 since it was on my wishlist for quite a while.
Also got the Earth 2150 Trilogy and Earth 2160 which were on sale for literally less than a dollar each.
>"My Girlfriend is an Alpaca," officially named PacaPlus, follows the "unforgettable summer" of Saeki Kazuma, who visits Alpaca Kingdom with his friends, only to return home on the bus, look over and discover that his girlfriend, Izumi Yukari, has been replaced by a fluffy white animal. Sekai Project has announced that not only is this visual novel coming to digital distribution service Steam, physical copies will be on sale at Anime Expo.
Thank you. Gabe-Senpai.
PacaPlus Intro Video
Tomodachi Life is the greatest Valve simulator I have ever seen.
Anyone have any idea about what the gimmick for the Steam summer sale is going to be like?
Obviously it will have something to do with the new set of "mysterious cards" that have shown up under badges.
Yesterday's TF2 update included a new feature where a bread-related item has a random chance of spawning every time someone uses a teleporter.
Nine types of bread may spawn when using the tele, also this item tf_throwable_projectile_breadmonster
I somehow completely missed the Lecture Valley teaser. Also, that's a lot more bread-related stuff than I even thought existed already. I guess I only pay attention to the fringes of the TF2 world.
Extra! Extra! Read all about it!
MY WALLET NEEDS PUNISIHMENT GABEN
I NEED TO PUT EVEN MORE GAMES ON MY LIBRARY THAT I KNOW WONT EVER HAVE TIME TO TOUCH
FUCK. WHY NOW. I DON'T HAVE REGULAR INTERNET ACCESS. Q_Q
thinking of just cashing out my stash in the warehouse to keys and just getting a few games. from some Trade servers. Cause I'm not really into the whole status thing anymore I just want to play for fun in Tf2
Who the fuck is on Purple? They won yesterday by a decent amount, but today Red (my team) had a sizeable lead earlier and Purple just passed us and isn't losing stride.
Purple and Red teams = Fucking hackers
You will all be purged in the glorious uprising!
So, do we have any idea of the amount of people involved in this? Because, I reckon that the odds of being among the daily 30 that get free games, are most likely pretty minuscule.
Guys, how's Payday 2? is it worth buying the four pack for the bros?
I remember hearing its better than the first one more refined in some ways and the safe house adds a bit
Yeah... but it doesn't cost you anything to get on a team. So gamble with free/no money.
Dang I was hoping the Fighter bundle would win after watching Fisticuffs
Well technically you need to have at least 1 point per day for a chance to get any free games?
So that means assembling a badge, which means acquiring cards.
So you only get points for crafting cards. Does that mean people are crafting several million badges a day? That seems fucking insane!
Maybe people want one of those tf2 cosmetic items
You also get rare tokens when you craft (holiday?) badges sometimes that allow you to either add or subtract from the points total of a team.
But still alot of badges are being crafted.
So, buy MGR (50% off) tonight or wait till the end of the sale?
Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but the daily sales = the lowest price you will be seeing the game during the event
flash sales can go lower sometimes, but daily is good to grab too ifthere's a game you want on one
So the 30 people who gets free games on the Team... that would be the 30 people who have the highest points? That seems like it would make the most sense.
Also does anyone else think the game has become rigged after they reset the points? Its changed from teams going back and forth over the #1 slot to one team dominating by an impossible margin and everyone else being almost neck and neck.
Pink team will win this round then Blue team will win the next one.
Borderlands 2 GOTY worth it? Still seems to be a ton of content not included in that pack
I haven't used Steam in a while, what's this card stuff I've read about?
Buy games get cards, craft cards to get cosmetic items for certain games. Also badges for your profile.
What's hilarious is that by the third day it settled into an equilibrium where the big spenders all buy the next cheapest team-change tokens and move on to the next team so that, as it appears now, all the teams will win at least once.
It looks like blue team is up for tomorrow.
>that would be the 30 people who have the highest points?
I am pretty sure the 30 winners are chosen at random. Otherwise it would be an incredibly stupid move for Valve.
> lets take the biggest spenders, people that can buy whatever game they like
> and now free games for them
No, that doesn't make much sense.
Rewarding people who give the most, makes perfect sense. Don't be hatin on people just for being more successful than you.
Good thing Valve does not think the same, because again, the winners are picked at random.
The winners are not picked at random. Only the people who contributed points that day enter, and those who contributed more points get a better chance of winning. It's in the details.
> Each day the team with the most points wins. 30 members of that team who contributed points that day will win 3 games off their Wishlist.
That's all I can find, if there other specifics about the contests, pleas do post them. As it reads, there is no mention of the people spending more having better odds at winning.
You can increase your own odds by increasing your team's likelyhood of winning, and that can be done by spending money to buy up cards and craft badges. It's not fullproof, though.
Fuck, I didn't even know about those tokens.
Sometimes a Flash Sale or Community Choice will have the same or lower price. Also, don't forget they do a "best of" at the very end that will bring back some deals. But otherwise, yeah, so if you like a deal you should probably grab it.
Oooh, the Market item listings do live updates now. Pretty.
I do know that, but according to than anon, the more you spend the better odds you have to be one of the 30 winners at the end of the day, and I can't find anything about that.
Oh. Yeah, I've not seen evidence of that.
Valve has changed the game: Now the top three teams will win games:
>1st place team
>30 team members who scored points will win 3 games
>2nd place team
>20 team members who scored points will win 2 games
>3rd place team
>10 team members who scored points will win 1 game
How exactly do you craft badges and get onto a team? My gameplay experience is entirely solo player only because none of my friends play computer games, so I can only get a maximum of 4 cards per game.
You can buy cards, or trade cards for other cards; if you have a high-enough level, you could randomly get card packs, but don't count on it.
You can get onto a team by going to the faq (http://store.steampowered.com/promotion/summer2014faq/) and clicking the "Get on a team" button that's a below team stats. But it only matters if you earn points, and points are only earned by crafting (crafting will put you on a team if you aren't already). Once you have a complete set for a badge you can craft it, earn your team points, and then if they win the day you have a chance of winning games.
So I was looking at Fallout: New Vegas Ultimate Edition; I have vanilla New Vegas, so I wondered if there was an upgrade pack, but when I go to the Ultimate Edition page it says I already own it. Hovering over the "play now" button gives the game ID for vanilla New Vegas. Did New Vegas purchasers get a free upgrade I'm unaware of, or is this Steam being stupid?
Steam being stupid. That said, you should be able to get all the dlc at a discount.
Indeed. But, for some reason, being faced with having to purchase them separately (even if cheaper in total than buying Ultimate Edition) makes me lose all interest. Not that I would play them anytime soon anyway, so I can wait for the Winter Sale.
I was wondering what would happen after the last team won yesterday. Whether the big spenders would collude to move on to the next team with the cheapest tokens (and so on and so forth until the end of the contest) or just stay in the team they were already on and rake it in there.
Looks like the new rules have injected competition back into this contest.
The whole thing's fucking ingenious. The majority of Steam users were probably sitting on several dozen trading cards, because they never gave a shit, like me. But now they gave them so much attention that stupid idiots, like me, suddenly discovered the "Sell" button in their inventory and introduced all those precious cards to the market, where Steam now gets a cut of off players who just now discovered that they could earn money for their Steam wallet by just playing their games.
Everyones jumped to team red and is sticking there now, this is pretty bullshit.
As an original Red, I have no problem with this.
At least Red isn't outpacing the others by 4-5x like Blue did two days ago. In fact, everyone else but blue are still neck and neck, so they can still vie for at least second (and still have a possibility of catching up to Red).
You re so completely full of shit, look at that fucking scoreboard.
Red winning two days in a row by a cleansweep both times is pretty clearly broken.
It could very well continue throughout the remaining competition.
They shouldn't have added those tokens that let you switch teams.
>They shouldn't have added those tokens that let you switch teams.
Agreed, though I'm sure Valve has no bad feelings: tokens are still going at $2, except for Red, which is currently ELEVEN FUCKING FIFTY WHAT THE FUCK. Even if no more Red tokens sell (seriously, holy shit), Valve gets 20 cents per token, so just from those sales they're probably raking in a few hundred, if not a thousand, per day.
The new rewards does mean that those stuck on other teams (either because they can't afford the token or don't feel it's worth it) don't just give up and might try for second place. But this also just means more money for Valve.
But this is the first time they've done this sort of thing, to my knowledge, so hopefully they learn and next time you're stuck on a team.
I just bought Metal Slug 3 from the bit of money I got from selling all my trading cards. Can't complain.
Really Valve? And on the day after I bought the last game I could with what was left of the $20 I budgeted for this sale.
And it's such a good deal considering how much that program usually goes for.
Whoever is on Red that is pumping out those points, FSM bless you.
Also, another way they could balance this out so late in the game is to make the point-stealing tokens preferential towards a team or teams that have a severe lead. So right now all other teams would be quite likely to steal from Red, allowing places to change more often. Of course, looking at the point break down Red already has more points stolen in rough relation to its standing, so maybe this is in place already.
Yah. I bought it during last year's Summer Sale and am happy with it, though I don't use it like I should. They might still have a less-good sale on it normally.
Oh look Red is pulling ahead AGAIN, this "contest" is a sham.
Should have just randomly assigned everyone a new team every day with no option to change.
It's like Valve forgot to playtest something for the first time in their lives.
This whole sales event have been a disappointment for me, the past three days can be summed as WOW IT'S FUCKING NOTHING, barely have got any new games so far.
Every one of my votes was for nothing, didn't get one right. No Double Dragon Neon for 2.50
I got way more games off of GOG than Steam this year.
For me, there have been games that I want, but I have no games that I want want, so with an already-massive backlog of games I haven't really bothered.
I wonder if Valve gains more cash from the transactions in the marketplace than actually selling the games.
Has anyone here actually won any of the free games from this promotion?
The odds of winning are pretty small, the better estimates give a 0,05% (with the worse ones being like 0,0002%) of being one of the winners, and that's if your team wins the day.
That article gives Reddit far too much credit, I think. They might have tipped one team to get a larger lead, but the article completely fails to mention the team-swapping tokens, even after it mentions the point-stealing tokens, and I think that's a major part of what caused the huge lead.
Also Red Team is gonna win Day 8.
Well, something changed: Pink has a decent lead and Red is in 3rd right behind green.
Oh wait, here it is.
Its way too artificial with how close the points total are in the final run.
All I know is red had better not win again.
I don't think it's artificial; surprisingly close, perhaps, but this is the final hurrah so everyone who has been saving up their Summer Cards are now crafting like fucking mad men to try to get *some* use out of them before the prices turn to crap and they expire tomorrow.
Speaking of prices, I think this is the first time I've seen the price of a card go UP. Not much, and certainly not to the 45 cents that was commanded on the first day, but still a moderate increase. Tomorrow they'll drop like a rock, I expect, and that's when I'll swoop in and try to buy up a bunch for crafting.
Green confirmed for least morally-bankrupt team.
Which makes it rather depressing how they basically didn't get anywhere in the competition.
Worst of the Steam sales so far, mechanic and sales themselves.
Looking to trade keys for Revengence since its back on sale if anyone is interested say 6 keys and six scrap.
Fuck. I checked it about 20 minutes before the end and had to head out. At that time, it was neck-and-neck, less than 4000 points or so between first and last. Come back and Pink has won by a ginormous margin.
Anyway, hopefully prices on summer cards crash later tonight and I can buy them for $.10/card for some easy XP and maybe a rare item.
By the way, anybody have a green team emoticon they'd like too trade for a purple one?
Holy crap, Divine Divinity an Beyond Divinity are on sale for $1.19 each right now.
Just in time for me to get to use the $1.48 I still have thanks to selling excess cards.
We might not be able to win the entire contest, but you can be damn sure we'll Avenge it.
>tens of thousands of people still listing cards for $.20+
>cards disappear in two hours
I guess these are "go big or go home" kind of people.
Time to tally up the score.
Let's see I loaded up $20.00 at the start of the Summer Sale and sold a few of the extra cards I had...
Got the following:
1. Call of Juarez Gunslinger - $3.74
2. The Witcher: Enhanced Edition - $1.99
3. The Witcher 2: Enhanced Edition - $3.99
4. Marlow Briggs and the Mask of Death - $0.99
5. The Final Hours of Portal 2 - $0.49
6. Bastion - $2.24 (Gift)
7. Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons - $2.99
8. Mirror's Edge - $4.99
9. Divine Divinity - $1.19
I was gifted:
Metro: Last Light Complete Edition
I also bought 15 trading cards to craft badges and a couple green team wallpapers and an emoticon for a total of $2.36.
Total spent: $24.97
Remaining balance: $0.20
Which means I managed to get $5.17 from selling excess cards. All in all, not bad.
(Also bought nine games from GOG during their summer sale and got two games for free. Spent $32.91 on that.)
Bought Van Helsing and Saint's Row IV with my own money.
Bought Metal Slug 3 and a cosmetic item for Path of Exile with money made from cards.
This is the most I bought on a Steam sale in a while.
Did Almost keys only run about 6 bucks odd out for the extra Borderlands 2 DLC that wasn't in GOTY but main game and Killer is Dead were key trades. Missed out on a Trade for Revengance early on but I'll wait for the next Holiday sale. Which point I'll sell off the more TF2 Cosmetics and do more trading.
Arkham Origins plus DLCs
Arkham City plus DLCs
Payday 2 plus most of the DLCs
Metal Gear Rising
Farcry Blood Dragon
The Witcher (already had Witcher 2)
Sanic Racing (blessed be the anon on /v/ who recommended it to me)
A DLC for Serious Sam 3
Dust: An Elysian Tale
That's it. I did about as much in the last sale; I may well be Sale'd out, between a huge gaming backlog and relative lack of funds.
Indeed Sonic Racing is pretty dang good
Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs
Skyrim: Legendary Edition
Sleeping Dogs Collection
Deus Ex: Invisible War
Deus Ex: HR DC
Dishonored GOTY Edition
PAYDAY Wolfpack DLC
Dust: An Elysian Tail
Brothers - A Tale of Two Sons
Ass Creed 1
Overall a decent whipping of my wallet.
I though about Skyrim, but the amount of modding I'd have to have done to make it fun, didn't balance for me. Maybe next sale. Also a few of those I would have had a not watched a LP. But two I will once they go down enough BECAUSE I want to experience it after watching the LP. Killer is Dead being one of those.
-Risk of Rain
-Pac-Man Championship edition
I spent less than 10 buck on this games, and I'm more than fine with that.
>Sleeping Dogs Collection
Man, Sleeping Dogs is a fine game, but some of the DLCs give you SUCH a ridiculous headstarrt, I really disliked that.
Its a single player game. And if you personally don't want to use the bonus costumes that have perks then just don't.
There's also apparently a Canada Sale ongoing.
Guacamelee and Rouge Legacy are Canadian? Well I'll just uninstall them immediately, we all make mistakes.
The bonus costumes were fine, no idea why woudl you think I have anything about that. Thing is, among the DLC were stuff that automatically give you a ton of experience and money without doing crap, and AFAIK there is no way to avoid it. Again, it is a fine game and I don't regret buying it during the winter sales, but the experience for me was somewhat lessened by *some* of the DLC, that's really my only complain.
And it has Mark of the Ninja on it. FUCKING BUY IT!
Genuinely one of the best games I've ever played.
New Humble Bundle, this time from 2K. Pretty decent selection: Bioshock (1,2,I), X-Com (Enemy Unknown, The Bureau), Darkness II, Mafia II, Spec Ops: The Line.
I have pretty much every game there that I would want, though; not worth it just to add Spec Ops to my backlog.
Dang I got most of those, is The Bureau interesting enough to get.
It's okay-ish. Bear in mind that the game is a shooter.
So apparently there's a French sale on Steam for Bastille Day.
A sale so good it will make you surrender your wallet
hyukk hyuk hyuk
I've never even heard of Chainsaw Warrior before.
Personally I just wish the old Dawn of War CD keys were valid on Steam.
Did anyone get a good load of this?
Pretty good deal, except I have yet to know someone who doesn't have most, if not all, of these game already. They are a must have, unless you hate fps.
>>I have yet to know someone who doesn't have most, if not all, of these game already.
Yeah its one of my most played steam games.
I'm not buying it again.
I would have loved it if instead of a board game we had gotten another expansion.
Even crazier than mechs and genetic engineering.
>Payday 2: Hotline Miami DLC
Good, another excuse for getting Payday 2.
Sup "Richard" who has time for a heist when there are Russians about.
Head's up, Shadowrun Returns and the Dragonfall expansion are both on sale for 75% off.
I picked up the Deluxe Edition, but sadly Dragonfall doesn't has a discount.
Huh, I could swear I saw it was discounted when I first checked, but apparently not.
The director's cut of the expansion is coming out, though.
Woah, I am seeing FFIV available on Steam, and apparently is a port of the DS remake.
I love FFIV, but I don't care for portable gaming so I didn't plat with the remake. Is it good? The fact that it has voice acting kinda worries me.
It's pretty good. It's also obscenely hard. However I don't know how good the port is. I only played it on DS.
The voice acting is pretty good actually. This is actually a port of the PSP version, which is a port of the DS version anyway. It's widely considered to be the definitive version since it puts in missing scenes from the original script, and the gameplay is overall much better than the original.
The only drawbacks are the difficulty being stupidly hard, twice as hard as the original, and the new music is ok but you can tell Uematsu had no hand in the rearrangements, so often it sounds inferior to the original.
Hot damn, major sale on Paradox Interactive games until the 6th!
>Steam recommends game to me
>has some generic nondescript name
>hey, this looks neat, now where's the in-game screensh-
>it's some fucking Minecraft clone with garbage graphics
I hate this so much.
Ya all know they are giving Payday:The Heist for free, right? Just a heads up, a couple of hours left.
Steam is doing a huge Free Weekend, covering a multitude of games including PayDay 2, Injustice, and Trine 2. 10 games in all, you can see the list on Steam. However, unlike most these run out Sunday afternoon, so give them a try now.
Eidos games on sale right now.
>Deadly Premonition for only $2.50
Sweet, was just starting to get into this game. Even if the gameplay is as shit as people claim it is, with a price that low it's well worth it just to be able to troll George and Forrest and make Thomas my kitchen slave myself.
Some pretty good discounts this sale.
Only 10 hours or so left. Anyone have any recommendations for the Halloween sale?
Spooky scary or horror/ monster themed preferred.
Me, I'm getting Darkstalkers I & II, Painkiller: Black Edition, S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl & Call of Pripyat (finally), Overlord I & II and Betrayer.
...or rather I would have. Had I not kept getting error messages on checkout.
I don't know whether to blame Steam or my bank.
Grab a copy while you can, chaps, Only less than an hour left.
You know, I actually thought of this dilemma of posting nsfw-looking sfw pic and how to categorize it. But alright, nsfw it is.
Now, for the one who didn't have the opportunity, I'm already ahead of you:
At first I was like "Euggh."
But then I was like "Ehhhh?"
And finally I was like "Ah ha!"
But yeah, probably don't do that.
Finally beat the first Torchlight. Played it off and on every few months for the past year or so burning a good full nights worth of time on it each time I touched it and giving me my fill.
Looking back, man that shit is repetitive and easy, but it's somehow addicting as hell. this is also the first game I've beaten in the past three years
Now go for Torchlight II. It's so much better than the first, you don't even know.
I would and I have it, but they still haven't released the promised port for Mac yet and I'm almost out of space on my Windows partition.
Installed Witcher 2 after seeing it was available on my mac and I only just finished the tutorial and I've got a feeling I'm in for Porto-dark souls
Steam is having an "Exploration Sale", which doesn't seem like an event sale, just a "hey we have Black Friday too" thing.
It's the normal Fall sale, just with another name.
Maybe I haven't noticed it before, but I do like that they have the "In Library" notice on games I already own. Many times in past Steam Sales, I'd go "Oh, I've been interested in that game... wait, do I already own it?" and have to go check.
Hey, did anyone else notice some games aren't giftable outside a certain area?
I tried buying one for a friend, me being in Mexico, but it told me they wouldnt be able to add it to their library unless they were in Central or South America.
Sega Racing Transformed, The Dreamcast Collection and Nights into Dreams are all on sale for a dollar. There's also some DLC for some games I don't own.
How often are these humblebundle deals this good? I've never really paid attention to them before, but it's usually just small indie stuff on sale right?
Sega Racing Transformed, The Dreamcast Collection and Nights into Dreams are all on sale for a dollar. There's also some DLC for some games I don't own.
How often are these humblebundle deals this good? I've never really paid attention to them before, but it's usually just small indie stuff on sale right?
>it's usually just small indie stuff on sale right?
It started that way, but relatively big names have been included for the past couple years.
Even with the massive discount in some cases they can see a good tripled sale margin which makes it a good idea for bigger names to participate.
The problem with big names being on sale is there's usually a lot of relatively recent titles that, since they're on disc as well are only going to go down to about $30. Steam sales got their rep for beating people's wallets in, for so many games under $10. Now with all these AAA titles that cost more than that, I don't feel like spending that kind of money.
I've always been more of a console player and I need help deciding what to get now that I'm branching out into PC games.
Should I get
Morrowind GOTY Edition
Oblivion GOTY Edition
or Skyrim Legendary?
I only want to buy one of these and I'm not sure which one I want. Which would you guys suggest? Please explain why.
Do you like sandboxes, FPSes, RPGs, or character customization? That should help narrow things down a bit.
I've been advised to just wait for the next Valve/Bethesda bundle sale, so I'm just going to do that. I got plenty of new games over the black friday weekend anyway so I'm good for a while.
Morrowind is GOAT RPG with delicious lore, a fantastic setting, and an interesting plot. The graphics are dated, which can be fixed with mods to a good degree, the combat is often criticized for it's dice roll mechanics (you can be trying to hit a mudcrab right in front of you and miss every time if your stats suck), but that can be modded as well, and it's incredibly easy to break the game with magic.
Oblivion is... I honestly don't remember a lot of Oblivion. The story was forgettable, the character models are fugly as hell in a way that managed to age worse than Morrowind, and the setting is just boring. Really, outside of the Shivering Isles expansion, the game is just kind of meh. That said, the Shivering Isles campaign pretty much makes up for the how mediocre the rest of the game was.
Skyrim is those two games dumbed down quite a bit. The combat mechanics are simplified in almost every way, even the magic. The story is better than the one in Oblivion (IMHO), but not by that much. It's obviously the most aesthetically pleasing of the three games when unmodded due to its age. Dawngaurd was an OK expansion, Dragonborn was better, and Hearthfire is stupid shit that modders had already done.
All three games have/had a large modding community, and it serves as one of the major draws of those games. As far as I've heard, the mods for Skyrim are starting to ramp up in quality, but I haven't bothered to sift through them to see if that's true. If you were to ask me point blank which one I would recommend without taking personal tastes into consideration, I'd say get Morrowind. It's worth experiencing.
Half-Life is fucking Half-Life. I wouldn't say it's a necessary game to experience, but it may be worth it, I don't know.
Steam has started some sort of "auction" thing, where you use Community items to create gems, then big the gems on a wide variety of games, each of which has a number of copies to auction off. The first auction isn't actually over until Monday morning, and then every 45 minutes. I guess something done fucked up, because they took the current auction down; not surprising, the top auction item was for 7,800,000 gems. For reference, a single trading card will get you between 20-80 gems (at least, in my inventory). The backgrounds I had lying around from past events were worth 100 gems each, but even at 3,200 gems I didn't come close to winning anything of worth.
The auction stuff ends when the Steam Winter Sale starts, which is Thursday Dec 18th 10 AM PST. Gems can still be used after that to craft booster packs.
>Sorry, but there have been some issues with Gems and the Steam Holiday Auction has been temporarily closed. The elves are working frantically to get the issues sorted out, and the auction will start again as soon as they're done.
I never really gave shit about crafting, so I'm not gonna get anything out of this. The only badge I ever crafted was for Metal Slug 3, because I still had some cents lying around in my Steam wallet. And I'm definitely not going to turn my amazing poop emoticon into some shitty gems.
Even games that cost less than $10 on sale are going for over 10,000 gems when cards are worth about 20 gems each--I've routinely seen Bulletstorm on sale for $5, but the highest bid right now is 15,600 gems.
Even selling these cards for a nickel on the market gets you vastly more in terms of buying power.
Yea this is a special kind of stupid going on here. Kinda waiting for the cards to go up a little as people clear out the market to make gems.
It all seems remarkably silly. But I guess it's an excuse to clear out an inventory.
I put down a couple at a few cents higher than average to see which way things blow.
inb4 bots ruin the auctions, I'm actually waiting for it.
I never really thought about it before Hatred was removed, but Valves massive control over PC games is a huge problem. If you want to make money on PC, you go to Steam, that's just how it is. It has millions of users who refuse to use any other service and many have no clue about games that aren't released on Steam. If you don't release on their service you will make peanuts, you will be lucky to make back your investment. So Valve now has authority over the morality of games on PC. If Gabe doesn't like the politics of your game it won't get released; what he says goes and a Steam release can make or break an indie dev. The removal of Hatred sets a precedent and an example to other developers. Nobody will attempt to do something shocking or controversial, nobody will dare to rock the boat with something new. Valve has took a huge step forward in killing games as an art form. Doesn't that scare the shit out of anyone else?
It has been like that forever. Alongside the fact that you will be unable to play the games you purchased ever again, if Steam decides to ban your account, there's plenty of things that are problematic about a monopoly like that. If you want to make a difference, don't buy games from Steam whenever possible. There are other competitors. Both GOG and Amazon offer plenty of games without any sort of DRM. There's also Gamersgate, which has been around forever, but I hardly check anymore, because they tend to be kinda overpriced. You're not gonna convince several million people to stop using Steam, but you can start with yourself. All that said, I'm not even saying people should stop using Steam forever. As far as online matchmaking and intrusive DRM go, they're still vastly preferable to anything else.
Oh no, where will I market my video game adaptation of Triumph of the Will?
Whatever you say pal.
Maybe before starting to rant you should learn what the return key on your board is for.
No, it has the POTENTIAL to be a problem. There's a difference.
Maybe because postal is actually dark humour while hatred is trying to play tryhard edgy nonsense completely straight.
Postal 2 is great, big improvement on the original, with the open world and it gives the choice to the player in just how violent you wanna be, can even play a pacifist if you really want to.
>It has millions of users who refuse to use any other service
because no other service is nearly as mature as Steam. Origin, Uplay, etc. are far more buggy/problematic with far fewer features. Plus they don't have the massive sales that Steam has (two days until the Winter sale!) and their libraries are almost entirely their own games. This could be because no one wants to bother integrating with both Steam and another store, but I doubt it's that hard unless Origin, Uplay, etc. have onerous requirements.
If they want to be used as much as Steam, they need to do a few things:
1) Make the main program sleek as hell; I barely notice Steam is running unless I'm playing a game or interacting with it, the footprint is fairly small
2) Encourage indie devs to release on their platform, without barring them from releasing on Steam as well
3) Hook into Steam; Valve offers an API, so a way to entice users would be to let them log in with their Steam ID
4) As an extension of 3: if the user has a game on Steam, and that game is available on the alternative, let the user connect the game (or download it, if you can't hook into the Steam copy) for free so they can use the social features of the platform of choice.
>Steam's monopoly is a big problem.
I agree, it is a pot that could potentially boil over at any moment. Thankfully they've acted more-or-less altruistically despite their sheer dominance thus far. If EA or Ubisoft were in the same position they would take their customers for as much as they possibly could. If I lost access to all of my Steam stuff, I would go to GoG and Humble Bundle with Raptr as my social manager, not Origin or Uplay.
The problem I have is with Steam's lack of transparency more than anything else. It could go down the slippery slope and eventually go the way of Apple where games get banned just because they have something political in it like the Syrian Civil War, regardless of whether they're impartial about it or not, and we'd never be able to know to do something about it.
Yeah, Postal 2. Postal 1 is doesn't play the satire card like 2 does and it's still there too.
I feel the situation has been misreported somewhat - Hatred was voted onto Steam Greenlight for Valve to consider whether to publish it or not. Valve took one look at Fascist The Edgehog and went "lol no". Ultimately, it's Valve's decision whether to publish games highlighted by users on Steam Greenlight, it's not obligated to publish any old voter-bombed schlock that grabs their attention. If Hatred were picked up by a third-party publisher (god forbid) then I'm pretty sure Steam would have to stock it, it hasn't been "banned forever" or anything like that.
A failure to obtain a Steam release can drastically cut the chances of an obscure indie release gaining exposure, but you'd have to be living in a cave to have never heard of Hatred. I agree that Steam's near-monopoly on digital PC releases is setting the market up for problems down the road, but there are games out there worth raising a stink over and Hatred is emphatically not one of them.
Also Steam has promised that if they ever have to shutdown the network they'll load everyone's libraries on to portable media and make sure they have them. While on the flip of that we've seen that EA and likely UBI won't give a shit.
While I enjoy Steam/Valve, I've never put any stock into that promise. First, it's a promise and not a contractual obligation (AFAIK), and I could easily see that not happening depending on why they have to shut down.
Well I give them the benefit at the moment since that is leagues more than EA who are more "tough shit" on the few games that have been killed by them closing the servers.
>I agree that Steam's near-monopoly on digital PC releases is setting the market up for problems down the road
But it isn't. Not really. Its a service, and a free one at that.
Its literally up to the consumers. That's the reason they have the influence they have, and that can easily go away the moment the alternatives prove more consumer-friendly.
All other issues aside, I get really annoyed when people describe the Hatred issue as "censorship." A company deciding they don't want to publish your work is not censorship, even if it's for political reasons. You have the right to say what you want to say, but no one has an obligation to help you say it or to reward you for what you've said.
Yea and that may prove to happen sooner or later. Steam works as well as it does because they've already worked out all the bugs in the system (those first few years where a pickle)
And apparently, now its back.
Valve caved and they're officially supporting Hatred.
Good. The pendulum swings both ways and SJW don't have everyone by the balls like they seem to think they do and want.
Its comments like these that genuinely make me wonder if those supporting the game's release have any genuine conviction regarding it, or if they're doing so in the sake of contrarianism.
I find it hilarious that the people bitching about this game are giving the same reasons Jack Thompson did for games only a few years ago.
People spew "literally a nazi" these days a lot...
But in this case, I think its essential to point out Neo-Nazism is alive and well in Eastern Europe. Particularly in countries like Poland and Ukraine - and its GROWING in nations like Sweden. White Supremacy is a genuine political movement in those nations, and if this group is making this piece based off their political standing, its natural to assume this is actual political expression.
Especially considering how its "against the political correctness" of today.
There is such a thing as cultural context - and god damn there is such a thing as hate speech.
Man, Jack Thompson was a nut, come on.
Sounds like it's time for that person to download cracked exe's. Pirates win again.
>Man, Jack Thompson was a nut, come on.
He was a nut because his points where nonsense. He claimed that videogames could somehow convince people to be violent in real life. Aren't many of the arguments against Hatred that it promotes dangerous and violent ideals too?
I do not support this game. I think it's trying way too hard to be edgy and shocking. It makes the mistake of being a polar contraction reaction to another extreme and I will not touch the game in any way shape or form. But I can't denounce it out of fear that it will create real murderers or white supremacists.
Sad thing is, Hatred is probably more mechanically sound and playable as a pure game than a huge percentage of Steam's catalogue which is comprised of literal scams. If that's the case then even it has more reason to be on Steam's catalogue than shit like Air Control.
The important thing is that Valve be transparent with what is or isn't worth of being sold on their site, or else it continues along the arbitrary path and for all we know we could start seeing games like Sakura Spirit pulled for encouraging pedophilia because some guy on Steam's staff thinks like Cooper Lawrence, or Spec Ops getting pulled because whoever had the power to make the call was dumb enough to take it at face value.
Yeah, honestly it's pretty ridiculous to think that the game would actually make people more violent or racist than they are, anymore than Mortal Kombat or, more saliently, Ethnic Cleansing, did. Anyone who is capable of enjoying it or drawing from unironically is already fucked in the head to begin with. All Valve is doing is giving it unnecessary publicity in the same way that Australia gave GTA5 a big boost by pulling it off Target's shelves. No such thing as bad publicity in their eyes.
>But I can't denounce it out of fear that it will create real murderers or white supremacists.
Maybe that's no reason to denounce it.
But I do it because its supporting a group openly affiliated with white supremacy and neo nazi groups and have expressed said ideals.
Not only is it supporting them financially, its supporting the idea itself. And it giving a pat on the head to all the people who really believe what they fuckin posted on the game's page comments. Guh.
Valve can freely choose not to support the game and give it a platform - in doing so, they're directly affiliating themselves with the developers. They wouldn't be censoring the game, they wouldn't be infringing anyone's right to develop or purchase whatever they wish. Steam is just a platform. Its a store.
If anyone at Valve took it down because they were personally offended by the themes, company or ideas its spreading, then I'm real god damn disappointed they put it back up because of pressure from the uneducated "freedom of speech" martyrs.
So what's this shit about Steam region-locking gifts or something?
Criticism=/=censorship. When I call Hatred an asinine tryhard outrage-manufacturer developed by literal stormfronters, I don't mean "therefore it should be banned", I mean "therefore anyone buying this solely to get back at them-SJWs-taking-mah-games is a massive tool falling for a nakedly obvious marketing ploy."
All these comparisons to Jack Thomson are moot because Jack never really gave a shit about violence in video games, as evidenced by his current support for the GamerGate stupidity. Video games for him were no more than a proxy battlefield for retarded Culture Wars bullshit. That's ultimately what Hatred is too, a vehicle for noxious reactionary politics, and I'm disappointed that a segment of gamers are falling for it hook line and sinker.
DISCLAIMER: From what I have seen, Hatred is garbage aimed at angry teenagers and contrarian /v/ermin. I do not consider it a good game.
>arbitrary decisions and intransparency are acceptable behavior for a company as long as they're in line with my political opinions
Are you trying to make #GG look legitimate?
>its supporting the idea itself
>they're directly affiliating themselves with the developers
"If you aren't fighting on our side, you're an enemy agent."
>If anyone at Valve took it down because they were personally offended by the themes, company or ideas its spreading, then I'm real god damn disappointed they put it back up because of pressure from the uneducated "freedom of speech" martyrs.
You can look forward to gaming's yellow press declaring Gabe Newell Gaming's Anti-Christ. After all, only a soulless moneygrubbing shitbeard would cater to reactionary basement dwellers like 100% of the people who didn't want the game wiped off the face of the earth, right?
>"I don't want the government to ban it, I only want any non-negative reaction to it to be social suicide"
One doesn't have to be a #GG drone to recognize that all-too-common attitude as two-faced bullshit.
Wait, Jack Thompson IS supporting GamerGate?
What the fuck?!
It's to prevent people from lower priced regions to sell their games to higher priced ones.
There's nothing bullshit about that attitude. Censorship is preventing something from coming to market. Criticizing that product and treating it as the social marker it's obviously intended to be does not in any way prevent it from reaching the market.
These guys have a right to make their repugnant game. What they don't have a right to is an accepting public reaction. That, they have to earn.
(Also generally speaking only the government CAN censor, although if a private agent holds a monopoly over production and distribution they become the de facto government as far as that specific product is concerned. Steam, although far and away the largest and most popular digital distribution platform, does not actually occupy a monopoly position. Hatred could be sold through any number of other platforms, and if all of them turn them away they can sell directly to the public. They are not being censored in any way)
As far as I know some guys even GG considers sorta fringe went to Thompson looking for an interview to get him to talk shit about Sarkeesian. But even if he does actually support GG outright I don't see why that matters considering Tipper Gore, Hillary Clinton, and other figures associated with the liberal side of things also came out against video games for the exact same reasons. This is going into "If you are not with me, then you're my enemy" territory. Jim Sterling is against this game getting taken off Steam for fucks sake, are you going to call him a turncoat to GG too?
I should have been more specific. The last part was a more general statement about the often-repeated "no one is going to take your games away"* mantra, which was used in the context of far less polarizing games. Self-appointed moral guardians always try to turn their views into the mainstream with the intended goal of creating economic pressure on artists and social pressure on consumers in order to eradicate anything they consider offensive (the definition of which is arbitrarily expandable).
And once a social ban has been around for long enough, it will turn into a legal one. Enjoy the future. Thanks to #GG shitters there will be no meaningful opposition to it. Better hope nothing you enjoy will eventually be added to the list of "problematic" games.
*Of course not. They just won't get made anymore because devs don't want to be doxxed by crazies (acknowledging their existence is derailment btw) or blackballed by half of the industry. [You] also won't be able to talk about them anymore outside of dedicated nutjob circles because playing the wrong games (and by extension, not playing the right games) will be like admitting that you're a KKK member. That's the end goal. No censorship needed.
Apparently Gabe intervened to put the game back on anyway. Which is only more troubling because it validates the point made in >>192198 that it was probably all on one guy, meaning that in the (unlikely, but still) situation that were he replaced by someone with more "traditional" views, we could've seen games like Gone Home taken off for promoting immoral relationships without being any the wiser. It only puts a further spotlight on the need for Valve to be more transparent about its policies.
GG has become such a clusterfuck of unrelated ideals and blame that I'm not even sure what it's supposed to be honestly representative of anymore.
It's making me think of how theaters are refusing to show "The Interview" because of fear of backlash. Technically it's not censorship because you could go elsewhere to see it or wait for it on DVD, but it's still the result of corporates bowing to pressure from supposed moral guardians due to the potentially offensive political content contained within, and sadly there are actually some nutjobs wacky enough to think that North Korea are poor victims of American imperlailism or racism who would happily see this as a victory for "sensible" values and become emboldened by it.
I don't think my eyes could roll any harder than they are right now.
Theatre chains aren't pulling The Interview because of fears of a "backlash", they're pulling it for fear of a hypothetical terrorist attack by state-sponsored nutters. I haven't heard of any pressure from "moral guardians" and a lot of pressure from a crypto-fascist feudal hell-hole with a severe sense-of-humour shortage.
Remember the university talk Sarkeesian pulled out of because of a specific threat to machine-gun the lecture hall? That's the proper analogy for The Interview's problems, just on a far grander scale.
Based Gaben, finally real justice.
So then, again, you seem to think that it is my duty to help and reward people who say things that I disagree with. That by not giving people who say horrible things the money and the venue in which to say these things, I am "taking games away" from people who want to play them, and by not giving my money to people who say things I disagree with, I am hampering their ability to continue saying those things.
Using your logic, if I am in favor of free speech, I am obligated to buy every piece of media that comes out, otherwise publishers might decide that there's not a market for those pieces of media. And I am obligated to never criticize any piece of media, for fear that people will agree with me en masse enough that the thing will stop selling, and therefore the publishers will decide to stop producing more copies.
I imagine that you do not personally buy every piece of media that comes out. And I imagine you criticize things when you disagree with them. So I'm forced to ask: where do you draw the line? When does it stop being censorious to criticize and to refrain from purchase? When does it stop being censorious to complain about business decisions? At what point does my right to free speech, in the form of objecting to the things you've said, get taken away so that you can continue to enjoy your right to say horrible things without any social fallout?
You have a right to an opinion, not to be respected for that opinion.
It's not about YOU voting with your wallet, it's about demonizing others who didn't vote the same way. Don't pretend you missed the context, there's been enough yelling about it from both sides.
No, Valve isn't obligated to sell the game. What they'd be obligated to (from an ethical standpoint) is transparency (why are certain games not allowed on Steam) and consistency (applying the rule to all games). In this specific case, clarifications would have been necessary if they hadn't reverted the decision.
>where do you draw the line?
"If you buy this game, you are an oppressor" is the mindset I oppose because it is thought-terminating. "If [company] sells this game, they are oppressors" is the same concept (especially since it easily extends into "If you buy anything from [company], you are an oppressor too").
>At what point does my right to free speech, in the form of objecting to the things you've said, get taken away so that you can continue to enjoy your right to say horrible things without any social fallout?
Look at the deep ends of both sides in the #GG shitstorm for the answer to that one.
There's a difference between "not being respected" and "treated like a criminal".
A little attention-whoreish, I admit, but I’mma just post a link to a thing I wrote about the Hatred/Greenlight stuff ratjer than repost it here:
Yeah guess what, if you are a neo-nazi you are going to be treated as a social outcast.
Here's the thing though: applying labels like that is quick and easy and once it's happened the target has no chance to come back.
I am not some named user from this place. I've seen what I described happening often enough in enough places. One wrong word and you're a "SJW" or "feminazi" or "JIDF" or "stormfag" or "MRA".
Aaron Sorkin is the hack writer of the Newsroom.
You know what, I'll just stop posting. I've been voted to be the insane one. Report me if you must, it's up to the staff to decide whether my post history marks me as a problem.
Ah, yes, melodrama. That's going to make the difference in having your opinion taken seriously.
If you consider attempting to keep other people from saying things because you're anti-censorship to be logical, I guess.
Eh, I'm not really seeing how they're doing that, regardless of however shitty their message may be. I think while Steam entirely has the right to not distribute the game if they want and is not committing censorship by doing so, and were they explicit about their policies I would agree with them in keeping it out of their library, the fact that they singled this game out is a sign of, well, poor corporate ethics. Yes, I know, but hear me out, numerous other progressive gaming pundits have been saying the same thing. Namely it's Valve's lack of consistency, transparency, and truly bizarre priorities considering they're perfectly fine with leaving alone hundreds of games which flagrantly violate false marketing laws. This game is not OK, but apparently being able to rip customers off is perfectly fine? I don't think so. And if anything, this negative publicity will only encourage sales due to the controversy, which is playing entirely into the developers' hands.
Don't think so, some of their members are fans of far-right Polish groups but there's nothing conclusive since after all Falangists aren't considered literal Nazis either. And even if they were, I'm pretty sure the game explicitly is going with "we hate everyone equally" so they can't reject the game on the basis of it specifically promoting Nazism anymore than they can reject Earthworm Jim or Armikrog due to Doug TenNapel rampant homophobia. Whatever their reasoning is, they would have to be open about it.
tl;dr basically my point in the first paragraph is I don't care if they take this game down or not but I do care about Valve repeatedly profiting off of scam "games" over and over with the exception of a very small handful of them.
>Man, Jack Thompson was a nut, come on.
No, it really is the same shit on loop.
But hey between Hatred and The Interview getting all this media attention, it's been ensured that mediocre films and movies will be making bank and that press and media really do control the world and influence the gullible masses.
How are they ripping customers off? What was it they told customers they would give them that they are not giving them?
>Freedom of Speech through censorship of media because I disagree with it
I don't understand, there is no community thing going on, like last year's board game or the coal thingie?
And holy shit, Ground Zeroes on sale.
Nothing I really care about. That's a pretty hefty discount on Dark Souls 2 already, though. Did it sell poorly or something?
They also changed the Community's Choice; now it's a card for every vote, and the votes are 24 hours instead of 8.
The auction was probably their "sale event"; so they're going to play this one straight.
No, it's probably because they're doing a rerelease in April.
I can't believe it.
They really did region lock gifts.
They're doing that because the ruble is skydiving and people were taking advantage of that.
In the past few days, Russia has suffered a massive devaluation of their currency. There is a lot of opportunity to game the system by trading things across regions because of that.
Russia Simulator when?
In which case, I can't even get my friends some stuff.
Not even Revengeance.
I know not to buy until it's daily, but what was Rising before the daily for it ended? Because right now it's 75% off @ $7.49 and that's still pretty cheap.
It was six bucks. I'll trade three key, if its still viable to gift it. Bout ready to cash out what I've got since whatever was changed around the Halloween update has caused my connection in TF2 to go to hell.
I didn't want to build a new PC anyway.
As someone who has used and worked with them, don't get them, they're not worth it.
> 1268 continuous hours
Really? I expected more considering I have one game with over four time that many hours played and about a half dozen with over 100 hours.
>1812 continuous hours
Pretty sure they are calculating based on an average single player playthrough. Online play and new game+ stuff most likely doesn't count.
>1210 continuous hours (not counting the games I've already beaten I assume)
And after forcing myself to complete a mediocre one today, I've realized that I shouldn't worry about having a backlog.
If I don't like a game, I don't have to play it. And I certainly shouldn't rush through them just for the sake of getting to other games. I'll like what I like, and I'll play at my leisure.
>It would take you...
>660 continuous hours
>27 days,12 hours,35 minutes
That doesn't seem that bad. Especially since I've already sorted some of them out, because they were part of some bundle and I don't plan on playing them.
>About three years ago, popular game development and digital distribution company Valve hired lesser-known economist Yanis Varoufakis to analyse and improve the Steam Market.
>The economist has now gone places, with his appointment as the new finance minister of Greece.
I eagerly await the Greek Government's announcement that they are switching to a hat-based economy.
Random crates being dropped off on the streets. Don't know what's in them but you can buy a key and find out.
Ever sense I've started budgeting, I've come to realize just what an absolutely massive black hole videogames are to my income
Stop being poor, poorfag
It's nothing to do with poorness or overall wealth. It's about portion and percentage.
You silly fool.
Work on that backlog.
I have a similar problem. Every time I start to play a game these days, after about half an hour I start thinking of how my time could be better spent elsewhere on work or improving my marketable skills. then I just go and watch movies I've seen 100 times for the next few hours while browsing the internet instead.
>Every time I start to play a game these days, after about half an hour I start thinking of how my time could be better spent elsewhere on work or improving my marketable skills. then I just go and watch movies I've seen 100 times for the next few hours while browsing the internet instead.
There has to be a way to fix this.
Half Life 3 unconfirmed. Again.
couldn't happen to a nicer DLC release platform.
Big 2K sale on right now.
This made me realize, I don't really like 2K games.
Thanks steam. User made DLC with no guarantee of quality? And you get 75% of the money? How could I possibly say no.
I am in total, absolute shock that Valve would think this is a good idea. Were they pressured by other developers?
>How dare people try to ask for money for their hard work!
Reading the post, it sounds more like Valve was okay with a mod, even if it required another user to go out and download other mods separately? Not so much including the other mod with your mod that you charge for?
You want to work hard on your modeling and coding skills and make money from it? How about making something goddamn original? Instead of LITERALLY leeching off of other people for profit? Do you think TF2, CS:GO and DoD:S would even exist if the original mods weren't free? Patreon is one thing, that's just donating with donator benefits, been there done that. This is a whole new level of bullshit though.
If you ask for money for your unlicensed fanwork odds are you're a colossal wanker.
You want money? Fine, make something original. Don't expect dosh for piggybacking off another's work.
This is disgusting and it's going to change things for the worse. Can't wait for non-monetized modding to be prohibited by publishers. Welcome to the future, motherfucker.
thats literally the opposite of what the deal is though
Oh no. I'm fine with people getting paid for hard work. But I'm not fine with overcharging, products that can break with an official update, products that are blindly incompatible, taking a free product and suddenly start charging for it, amd a company pocketing 75% of that income while offering nothing in return.
I believe a donation/patron model would be far more appropriate.
FYI the actual split is set by the publisher for each case
Well maybe some developers will be a little more reasonable.
Assuming this pulls itself out of the mire of negative reaction. (like virtually all controversial decisions in the industry seem to do)
Most of the arguments used to defend this are identical to the ones used to defend ripoff DLC, pay2win, pay-to-not-wait, intrusive DRM, demonization of the secondary market and other anti-consumer bullshit.
GEE I WONDER WHY THAT IS
I don't think it's any different from the boxed Counterstrike games I saw on shelves for well over a decade.
Yeah, clearly the same thing, everyone who sells mods through this thing will end up getting hired by the company that made the game just like with Counter-Strike.
Typical that TCB would be absolutely blind to the ethics of this bullshit.
This is the equivalent of, let's say fanfiction writers being paid for their work.
That's already a thing.
>How about making something goddamn original? Instead of LITERALLY leeching off of other people for profit?
How do you feel about MadCatz, Nyko, etc.? Or the millions of cell phone case creators? Without the original products they make peripherals for, they wouldn't have a business model. Do you believe they should have to create their own consoles, PCs, and phones?
>This is the equivalent of, let's say fanfiction writers being paid for their work.
Isn't that just the superhero comic book industry?
All of those things are actual physical products that actually cost lots of money to produce. Mods cost NOTHING to produce. All you need is some programming or modeling knowledge and you can make it. If the purpose of a market is to gain more than what you spent to make your product, WHY the FUCK should I have to pay for something that costs NOTHING to make?
That's a great counterargument you got there, m8.
You are not familiar with the concept of opportunity costs are you?
Elaborate. Because I tend to agree with him and want to know and understand the counter argument.
That doesn't apply. Opportunity cost only works when there are limited resources to consider. It's not "Hmm, well I could sell it or not sell it." Mod creators have unlimited resources to create what they want to make, because all the tools are already there made for them.
> Mods cost NOTHING to produce. All you need is some programming or modeling knowledge and you can make it.
That's "all" is takes to make any video game--or any sort of computer application. The term "mod" covers every thing from altering literally a single line of code to essentially making a new game with the same engine. The former is not something any sane person will charge or pay for. A paid mod that's going to have any amount of popularity will take any number of manhours of programming, design, testing, etc. from people who are qualified to make a decent amount of money for doing such things.
No, opportunity cost applies to anything up to and including time. If you want more time and effort devoted to something, the makers need to be able to make a living off it.
>That's "all" is takes to make any video game--or any sort of computer application.
No it's not. When you make your own video game, you have to pay to use someone else's engine, someone else's programs to make your things. You have to create your own assets and your own technology using someone else's tools that you have to buy licenses for. You may even have to open and register your own production studio. And unless you make literally everything yourself (Super Meat Boy, Dust) you're going to have to hire some people and keep them on a salary. All of these things cost money. But when you modify something that already exists and has its own modding tools available, you don't have to spend a dime.
If you make something on the level of Black Mesa, of course it's worth paying for. But at this point, BM is an official Valve-licensed remake. If a full-scale supermod of Skyrim like Falskaar got the same treatment from Bethesda, I could easily let it slide. But a single fucking weapon? Or even a collection of weapons? No, I'm not fucking paying for that. Because if you were to charge 25c for every weapon available in Skyrim in the base game, you'd go past what the game cost at launch.
>No it's not. When you make your own video game, you have to pay to use someone else's engine, someone else's programs to make your things.
Second of all, even if you count all of that in, you're still not talking about commodities. You're talking about people being paid for services--programming, art, music, what have you, almost the entire cost of all of that is just in man hours. If you acknowledge the worth of paying someone for the hours of work they put into something, then you have no leg to stand on in saying that mod makers should not be allowed to profit off of the work they put in to making the mod.
You're the reason gamers have a reputation as entitled babies. You think strangers should make things for you for free, or that if they make things for themselves that you should be entitled to benefit off their work without paying for it.
>Mods cost NOTHING to produce.
Mods may not have the physical component requirements of console and phone accessories, but they most certainly do have a cost. Time is the big thing--the modder gave up their time to create the mod. There may be actual costs involved as well, such as animation programs, computer upgrades, maybe goodies for those who test it out. Mods do piggyback off existing games, but they still require new effort.
To say that a mod costs nothing to produce is like saying that any game using an existing game engine costs nothing to produce, because they're just building off the game engine albeit at a much grander scale.
>WHY the FUCK should I have to pay for something that costs NOTHING to make?
So don't. I doubt that every mod is going to go this way, just use the ones that remain free.
>you have to pay to use someone else's engine,
And that's where the game creators are taking a cut of the sales, an indirect cost to the modder.
>when you modify something that already exists and has its own modding tools available, you don't have to spend a dime.
If they create their own models (character or otherwise) and/or animations, they probably have to use a tool like Blender at some point. At the very least, they (probably) have a better-than-average rig, so even if they get to use it for other things it's still part of the cost.
>No, I'm not fucking paying for that.
>Because if you were to charge 25c for every weapon available in Skyrim in the base game, you'd go past what the game cost at launch.
But these new weapons were not available in the base game; that's the point, it's extra effort beyond the base game. By giving modders the ability to charge for the mods, it increases the incentive to do so and will likely cause more mods to be made (albeit at a price to the player) than if it didn't exist.
In summary, this is basically crowd-sourced DLC (proper DLC, not that Season Pass or Day-1 bullshit.)
To me, I worry that monetizing mods will bring out the very worst in the modding community. It's easy to say "don't like it, don't buy it," but as things stand now there are ALREADY a glut of terrible mods out there, slapped together just for the promises of e-fame. If people figure they can actually trick a few dollars out of people with their mods, my crystal ball says we'll be seeing an unregulated steam workshop even more full of terrible, quickly-produced and untested video game mods churned out by individuals who make a tidy profit on them. I mean this is why people regulate markets, for quality control that protects the consumer.
I can see this being particularly abused with fighting and Civ games, as people will whip up even more poorly-produced re-skins of popular characters.
I haven't looked at the mod setup in the workshops, but I imagine they can be rated just like any other workshop item. People will certainly try to sell crap, but after the first few purchases it will have a low rating.
I also assume that the game publisher has some say over what can/can't be sold (you can't re-create DLC and sell it for cheaper, no porn mods, etc.), so if a mod is intentionally misleading it might get pulled.
>To me, I worry that monetizing mods will bring out the very worst in the modding community. It's easy to say "don't like it, don't buy it," but as things stand now there are ALREADY a glut of terrible mods out there, slapped together just for the promises of e-fame. If people figure they can actually trick a few dollars out of people with their mods, my crystal ball says we'll be seeing an unregulated steam workshop even more full of terrible, quickly-produced and untested video game mods churned out by individuals who make a tidy profit on them. I mean this is why people regulate markets, for quality control that protects the consumer.
What you're talking about isn't consumer protection, it's anti-competitive practices to put up a walled garden. You are arguing in favor of a situation like Apple's AppStore over something more open because you want there to be a gatekeeper. That is anti-consumer. Giving a consumer more choices is never anti-consumer, even if the majority of the choices are shitty. Because it means that the best way to make more money is to provide more value to the consumer, and that means either lowering your prices or increasing your quality or both.
Your entire argument is the opposite of how economies work. While I agree with regulation for the sake of protecting consumers from certain things, the thing you are talking about is regulation not for the sake of consumers, but for the sake of enforcing a specific philosophy on an industry, which is anti consumer. It cripples innovation and reduces the pool of talent available to draw from in the industry.
has there ever been an unregulated/under-regulated market that didn't just fill up with crap schemes to fleece consumers until the bubble burst?
Unregulated markets can really only inherently fleece the consumers when anti-competitive practices are implemented. There will of course always be those who will take advantage of customers in any environment (including heavily regulated ones), but anti-competitive practices are necessary for that exploitation to become systemic. You are attempting to enforce anti-competitive practices onto this market by insisting on price fixing (at $0) and that one single company should take an active role in controlling content. You need look no further than the Apple AppStore to see the issues that happen when something like that, with the many incidents of Apple forbidding apps and games that include content that consumers might very well want but which Apple itself finds goes against their corporate image.
And what you are saying right now is "Please, Valve, be Apple."
There's a difference between not being Apple and allowing anyone to take a dump on your store shelf and stick a price tag on it. Steam's reputation has been declining for quite some time now because it's flooded with absolute garbage and paid-for mods aren't going to be any better.
For the record: I'm a different poster and I want Valve to stop this shit entirely. Valve is either incapable or unwilling to enfore any sort of quality control, so the best way would be for them to keep their fingers out of it entirely. Valve does not deserve a cut for doing nothing and it's dubious whether the game's publisher deservers to be paid for the work of modders.
This reeks of an attempt to "solve" the "modding problem" that AAA idiots believe exists by providing a bullshit framework that will serve as an excuse to route any and all mods through it in future games because this industry hates consumers having any control whatsoever over the product they bought.
Valve already removes donation links on free workshop mods. The next step would be for publishers to C&D mods distributed through channels they don't control.
If you think this is hyperbole, look at this industry's history.
>this industry hates consumers having any control whatsoever over the product they bought.
If that were true mods wouldn't be doable at all.
Technology isn't magic. Preventing modding completely would require intrusive DRM, and that's something this industry would never OH WAIT
EA has banned people's origin accounts for modding ME3 (I think it was 3) supposedly to prevent multiplayer cheating even if only singleplayer parts were modded.
>Technology isn't magic. Preventing modding completely would require intrusive DRM
No, all it would require would be to stop making games on PC and start making them on Consoles.
>Giving a consumer more choices is never anti-consumer, even if the majority of the choices are shitty.
Not actually true, because the consumer is not an omniscient and all-understanding being who is able to discern the options that are in their best interest. See: the medical industry.
You understand what a disingenuous, bullshit argument that is, right? The medical industry is an industry revolving around specialist knowledge such that people without medical degrees can't be expected to have enough knowledge of to make truly informed decisions. The video game industry is fucking entertainment. The only decision you have to make about whether or not you got your money's worth is "did I enjoy what I played, and did I enjoy it as much as whatever else I would've spent that money on."
It's not disingenuous at all. Medicine's a somewhat extreme example because of what a black box it is, but there's plenty of reason why even in apparently simpler fields consumers make poor choices. A lot of it has to do with psychological factors. See: the Free to Play game industry, which is built on manipulating those psychological factors to squeeze a ton of money out of nothing.
The fact is, people act against their own interests all the time. More choice only necessarily leads to better outcomes if all the options are good.
And your argument is still coming down to the idea that people aren't capable of telling whether or not they were entertained, which is still a disingenuous argument to make. I know it goes against Gamer Culture's hateboner for free to play games, but the fact of the matter is that free to play games aren't actually immoral. They entertain the people who pay for them. Those people want to play them. You are arguing that it is pro-consumer to tell them that they can't play games like that, because you have a personal disagreement with the business model. And once again, that's disingenuous. You aren't protecting the consumer here. You are simply attempting to justify the fact that you don't want to pay for the things you consume.
Free to play games are immoral when they're targeting children. It's still stupid of parents to leave their credit card details in the various app stores, but it doesn't make the companies any less scummy.
Do you think Steam mods are going to be bought in any significant numbers by children whose parents left credit card details in the app, then?
Keeping exploitative and unethical business models off the market IS pro-consumer. You are the only one who believes that the only metric of virtue is 'did they enjoy the game'. Sure, they enjoyed the game. They enjoyed the game so much they ran up hundreds of dollars on their parent's credit card in shitty psychologically-tuned micropayments.
Drugs and alcohol entertain the people who pay for them, and those people want to use them. Does that make them good things?
Ah, see, now we're getting even more proof of what's actually happening here. You're trying to legislate your own personal view of morality. Drug laws are not there to protect the consumer, they're there to enforce an ideal of morality that is held by the powers that be. This has never been about protecting the consumer--it has always been about you wanting to make sure everyone has to live by your own personal code of ethics.
See >>194493. But even beyond that, can I assume that--because you're so concerned about the welfare of children even if it means limiting the options for adults--you are in favor of the laws that people have tried to pass banning Adult Only games? Or Australia's laws? These are, after all, designed to protect children and while certainly it takes away freedom from adults, you seem to be making the argument that you are okay with taking away freedom from adults for the sake of protecting children who probably shouldn't be playing these games anyway.
No law in the world is going to make the vidya industry stop being full of garbage because "gamers" are retards. EA etc getting away with their bullshit and cancerous microtransaction schemes being profitable is the fault of the people who buy into it. Anyone who isn't a moron can see that "pay-to-not-wait" isn't gameplay. Anyone with an attention span longer than a minute can see that "pay-to-win" is not how videogames are supposed to work. Anyone with even an inch of healthy skepticism can see why intrusive DRM is dangerous. It's not scamming if it's perfectly clear what they're doing. They don't even need to lie, their targets are that stupid.
Stop letting the dreamworld libertarian derail the discussion. He hasn't even responded to
>There's a difference between not being Apple and allowing anyone to take a dump on your store shelf and stick a price tag on it. Steam's reputation has been declining for quite some time now because it's flooded with absolute garbage and paid-for mods aren't going to be any better.
A store owner deciding on a minimum quality threshold for items they sell has nothing to do with morality. If your shelves are crammed with garbage to the point that your storefront is useless to the average consumer, your store's reputation will suffer. Sure, there's good stuff in there, but the only way to know about it at all is via external sources because all you see at a casual glance is a sea of trash. Reviews only highlight established products. New products have to be discovered by other means.
Well, those who were against the idea of paid mods can smile:
Well thats a whole jimquisition episode wasted.