I could see it coming up like the Shoemaker. Allows Jack to go at a problem with a traditionalist flair. Maybe find a Warrior for Justice to lend a hand at a crucial point. Someone abducted by Aku turned into a cyborg who escaped to fight back.
>>240769 A cyborg made by someone who tends to have robots made with black metal and red glowing eyes, who goes on to fight against more people being made into similar cyborgs? I can't help but think that'd almost be like having two Jacks in a way.
The first two episodes are listed in guides as "XCII" (92) and "XCIII" (93). The skip from the last episode of the original run, "LII" (52), clearly references the time passed in and out of series, but I'm not seeing the significance of that particular number.
So Jack actually has to suffer the effects of being retarded and not making use of the time travel when it was readily available because he instead thought it was a good idea to run back and fight to save warriors that were willingly sacrificing their lives to defeat Aku when if he ever did go back and defeat Aku which was his supposed goal they would basically be unmade along with the dark future anyway?
>>245476 He's referencing an early episode in which Jack forsakes a portal home in order to aid warriors who are helping him despite the fact he could save them via erasing the situation through temporal alteration.
>>245475 He also did that way back in the fifth episode: Jack planned to get back via an FTL pod launch from a ship of astronauts escaping Aku's fleet around Earth. When they were being attacked, Jack delayed his launch to protect them and couldn't make it back before they left. Not sure if there was a third time.
Sneaky is right that Jack can't be sure how time travel works--he could have been sacrificing people in one timeline to save people in another, or sacrificing them completely in vain because changing the past is impossible. That's why he kind of wants to destroy Aku and then go back to the past, like those kids imagined he'd do. It's kind of like the opposite extreme of Nox from Wakfu, where he's being as cautious as possible in terms of multi-timeline ethics.
Even assuming their lives really did depended on Jack staying, there's still the "needs of the many" problem, but that's essentially a different moral dilemma entirely.
>>245480 Why don't the gods spend the two seconds needed to finish cleaning their mess instead of faffing about handing out magic swords to incompetent manlets? Dealt with the remnants of the blob monster while it was corrupting the Earth before it ever became Aku mebbie?
Jack literally ended up summoning one of the big bastards to deal with terrestrial sevants of another god, he could have just stuck around a little longer and dealt with everything with a single handwave. Hell the evil god managed to make three servants who were all ridiculously hax, why didn't each of the good gods just make a single one of those apiece and imbue it with the tiniest fragment of their abomination burning power? Aku would have been finished in no time.
>>245554 So? There are no pop-up ads (at least for me, as used Blocksite to disable any possible ones), and ads only appear when you pause the video on the picture, not a big hassle. Given that they host cartoon rips for free, that's the least you can do to support them.
>>245551 I have to wonder, given the overall differences in art style and shift to digital how many of the old animators are still around for this show. Although Tartakovsky himself probably gets involved in the animation process.
>>245571 Apparently that was the ending of the tie-in comic from IDW or whatever it was. I don't know for sure though since I never read it. >>245576 Unless Genndy can persuade them there's enough financial incentive to un-write it off for tax reasons, nope.
Genndy himself said that Jack had never killed a human in the original series:
>The whole conceit of the first series is that we couldn’t kill a human. He fought some, but he never killed them. He always had to find a way around it. […] Some of those bounty hunters were definitely alien-like. […] In my head, they were robots. I’d have to look at that episode again. I remember the episode, but I think they were mostly aliens. There were a couple of humans, but maybe they didn’t die.
>>245591 Seems kinda fishy. I've seen people claim that his sword is literally incapable of cutting humans but all the show actually said was that evil people can't use it to hurt good people. Nothing about it not being able to hurt anyone when a good person uses it.
According to the spoilers I heard about, this is a scene we will see in the next episode: As a young child, Jack was walking with his father when a group of men surrounded them; I forget if it was bandits or other samurai or what. Jack’s dad gave them a chance to leave — which is the same chance he gives the Daughters of Aku — and when the men refused, Jack’s dad slaughtered them all. Jack himself ended up covered in blood.
>>245593 >Nothing about it not being able to hurt anyone when a good person uses it. It doesn't matter who's using it. Aku couldn't use it to cut Jack, but Jack couldn't use it to cut a deer while hunting either. The sword seem to just refuse to kill living things unless they are evil/murderous/malicious.
I'm sure Jack could have killed humans with the sword. He just avoided doing so, and generally just beat them up.
Samurai "Get rid of all kids" Jack Samurai "Out of the womb and into the tomb" Jack Samurai "Killing a child feels really wild" Jack Samurai "Toddlers are nothing but fodder" Jack Samurai "Premeditated Preschool" Jack Samurai "Targets are found on the playground" Jack Samurai "Brats get gats" Jack Samurai "Little Jack Horner's Dead in the Corner" Jack Samurai "Ten years or less and get laid to rest" Jack Samurai "First grader mutilator" Jack Samurai "Spike the Tykes" Jack Samurai "Crying Kid Crusher" Jack Samurai "Toddler Terminator" Jack Samurai "Preschool Purifier" Jack Samurai "You must be this tall to live" Jack Samurai "Gerber Grow-up Plan Gleaner" Jack Samurai "Trust Fund Refund" Jack Samurai "Child Coffin Collector" Jack Samurai "burn'em while they're still small" Jack Samurai "if their age is on the clock, they're ready for the glock" Jack Samurai "small necks snap the best" Jack Samurai "Warriors of Hope in my scope" Jack Samurai "The Kids Are Not All Right" Jack Samurai "Underage Undertaker" Jack Samurai "The Babysplitter" Jack Samurai "Silly rabbit, crypts are for kids" Jack Samurai "Infants get lead implants" Jack Samurai "Krazy Kid KIller" Jack Samurai "Lobotomized Liquidator" Jack Samurai "Baby Burner" Jack Samurai "Tots on the rocks" Jack Samurai "I'll murder all the kiddies for about tree fiddy" Jack Samurai "Newborn Nightmare" Jack Samurai "The field trips I take end with my van at the bottom of a lake" Jack Samurai "Leave your kid afterschool I'll drown them in a pool" Jack Samurai "Bungling the Younglings" Jack Samurai "Toddler Slaughter" Jack Samurai "Permanent Lullaby" Jack Samurai "Never Too Young To Die" Jack Samurai "Ten years or less and get laid to rest" Jack Samurai "Empty my nine at the lunch line" Jack Samurai "Late Term Abortion" Jack Samurai "Simon Says Die" Jack Samurai "Let the babies hit the floor" Jack Samurai "Rock a Bye Bye Baby" Jack
>>245639 The show in general tends to go for what looks cool rather than what's realistic. A lot of the setpieces seem to completely change from one shot to shot so verisimilitude clearly has never been a priority.
After that shit [as] pulled on the early side of April Fool’s, that new “Rick and Morty” episode was worth waiting one more week for more “Jack”. We waited more than a decade for this, one more week is not going to hurt.
Jack manages to get back to the past and stop Aku. HOWEVER, that means that ALL THE CHARACTERS THAT WE GROWN TO KNOW AND LOVE, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO SCOTSMAN, will all be erased from history forever. Jack wins, but we all lose.
Most of the speculation I have seen on /co/ Prime do not mention Jack going back in time at all. The most tossed-around theories say Jack will either stay in the present or send Ashi back to the past instead — assuming he lives through his final battle with Aku, that is.
I feel the resolution of what should have been a climatic resolution to the mysterious green samurai apparition didn't have the emotional weight I feel it deserved. And how the apparition kept attacking Ashi while he is suppose to be in position to assist Jack in his ritual suicide really broke the verisimilitude for me. I'm not saying SJ is a show that is realistic, but I had some hopes that the depiction of harakiri would have been a tad more serious.
>>245955 I said a tad more serious. As in a little bit more, which implies that i felt it was serious, but could have gone further. I personally felt Ashi interuppting the ritual and fighting the ghost multiple times undercut the tone of the scene. This is all personal opinion, of course.
The whole point of the scene (and the episode, really) was Ashi trying to get Jack back to normal. The Spectre* was a manifestation of Jack’s depression and guilt. It was not defeated until Jack defeated it — and he did not have the will to defeat it until after Ashi proved there was still hope left in a world ruled by Aku. The scene’s entire point might have been undercut or felt rushed if she had only stepped in once or snapped Jack out of his depressed state with a couple of lines of dialogue.
* – I would think the character has an actual name or title, but I cannot be fucked to go look it up.
Mildly disappointed. He already got over his frustrations, already we have seen, many times even, he is NOT letting his "bad" side control him. Was it really necessary to tell "evil" Jack to go away ONE more time?? I don't know, guess it's serviceable. It works, but I expected something better.
And if anyone is wondering how Ashi managed to take out an entire army with no weapon in hand, she was trained to be the best of the best. Only Jack is lightly more skillful than her. The army was comprised of slow dumb goons who could not fight for shit.
The point is that Jack had to expunge his anger in order to progress, the sword wasn't accepting him otherwise. Not placate or accept like before, but let it go entirely. It was a test of worthiness by the three gods.
No, the sword doesn't accept to be held in anger. Jack quite obviously doesn't like his many foes, but his primary drive is always to bring justice to the needed.
Normally Jack would have quickly realized that the three monsters were those little goats that Aku turned with his magic, find a way to non-lethally take them down, and then go in a quest to find a cure or something. But that didn't happen because Jack's anger got the best of him and clouded his judgment.
Of course one could argue that given the circumstances it wasn't really Jack's fault and blaming him for reacting like a human is unreasonable. But that's the thing, the sword is a divine weapon, and expects it's master to be nothing short of a saint.
>>246003 Well yeah, I mean, that's the point right? If just anyone could beat Aku, he would've been beaten ages ago. The Scotsman would've done it if nothing else. It takes a messianic archetype to win the day. That's not being unfair to Jack, that's just forcing him to complete his apotheosis before he can accomplish his goal.
It does seem odd if you think about it that there aren't other gods out there, gods worshiped by the alien races of other worlds, that when Aku invaded their planet didn't bestow their champion with some holy nuke to destroy him with.
Anyway, does anyone have that fanart series of comics that show what-if Jack had ended up saving the daughters of Aku as little girls? Shows snippets of him raising them into proper young ladies and has the Scotsman and his wife interacting with Jack and the girls too. Wanted to save them now but can't find them.
>>246006 >Because Odin is such a saintly divine-individual right? Maybe that's why they couldn't finish of the thing that Aku spawned from.
>It does seem odd if you think about it that there aren't other gods out there, gods worshiped by the alien races of other worlds, that when Aku invaded their planet didn't bestow their champion with some holy nuke to destroy him with. Those same gods are probably worshiped on numerous planets under different names/identity. After all, when Jack's dad saw them, they were in the form of monks.
Personally, I think Ashi has been and still is a great addition to the show, but I still think that romance came out of nowhere and is fucking creepy besides. Jack is 50 years older than her, and has positioned himself as a mentor to her, plus she has had an abusive and traumatizing upbringing that really calls into question her ability to have a normal, adult perspective on romantic relationships and would need years of therapy to be able to attempt any sort of romantic entanglement that wasn't on some level deeply disturbing.
Like I understand Jack finding her sexy, and I can even understand her finding Jack sexy. But actually acting on those impulses I think is really fucking unfair to her on Jack's part and really fucking unwise (though at least explicable given her naivety) on Ashi's part.
Plus the episode really seemed like the first indication of any sort of attraction between them, so it really felt like it came out of nowhere.
And Aishi herself has both "grown on me" and annoyed me at different times, like her whole scrubbing off the ashes scene and rebirthing herself in clothing made from eden-like natural foliage partly inspired by seeing Jack doing the same before was a neat scene (and stuff like her joining in the Rave dancing with the others after a lifetime of never knowing this kind of experience was cute) But other parts her being Jack's love interest and how all her (nameless identical) sisters only existed to get chummed simply to show how much more... Unique & Special... she was in every way.
Only vaguely interested in how the series ends now, getting the feeling it won't be that great.
While I tend to agree with the criticisms about Season 5’s pacing, I also understand how it was something of a “necessary evil” given the situation. I can generally overlook the rushed characterisation of Ashi because she offered something important to the story — a way for Jack to regain the hope that he lost over the past fifty years — and she is a generally fun character besides.
Would I have liked Jashi more if Jack and Ashi had remained “friends” or whatever? Absolutely. Am I salty as fuck over Jashi becoming a romantic relationship, even though I feel it was shoehorned into the story? Fuck no. My only complaint is that the romance was underdeveloped.
Bring on the last two episodes. I wanna see how this story ends.
>>246077 Same. Heavy UST that lasts all season long is fine, but them already becoming a consummated couple is pretty dumb. It's not a show ruiner, but it's the most visible symptom of the show's atrocious pacing from episode 4 and onward. Last week's episode is arguably worse in this regard because it juggled so many plots at once and resolved not a single one of them satisfactorily, but this one stuck out more because the plot moved absolutely nowhere when it was already scrimping on screentime as it was.
Now if they do something like offer Jack a choice between being with Ashi in the present and getting to go back to the past to defeat Aku and Jack actually feels conflicted over this because he just loves Ashi soooo much, or that the romance was done because they think it'll make us care more when Aku captures Ashi and tortures her to hurt Jack, then the show will truly have shit itself.
>>246099 What's wrong with that is that it's inherently coercive. She can't give informed consent because of the difference in their levels of experience and perspective, to say nothing of her mental state after the upbringing she had.
For the record, I'm done with this argument now--I know you're just using this to mask a "Adults should be able to fuck children" debate and I don't feel like arguing with someone who's not arguing in good faith.
>She can't give informed consent because of the difference in their levels of experience and perspective, to say nothing of her mental state after the upbringing she had.
We are talking about a slightly-more-mature fifth season of a children’s cartoon about a time-displaced magical-sword-wielding Japanese man who fights the magical black slab of hate and destruction that flung him into the future in the first place, and you cannot buy into the idea that Ashi—a woman shown to be near Jack’s level of agility and strength—could either consent to a kiss or physically stop Jack from kissing her?
>>246104 So your logic is "magic exists, therefore fucking someone who is young enough to be your great granddaughter, who has never been shown affection or kindness by any other human, who has no context by which to judge what is and is not a healthy relationship, who literally didn't even comprehend a relationship between two living entities that wasn't either adversarial or worshipful until like three days ago and for whom you are literally 100% of their support network is not creepy, and the fact that she could physically stop him from doing it means that anything you do to her is something she was asking for."
The fact that someone is good at killing does not mean they are immune from manipulative behavior from people in positions of power over them. See for example how common rape and sexual assault is in the military, almost always amongst people who have the physical means necessary to prevent those things from happening to them. You're either not thinking through the ramifications of fucking your kid sidekick (and yes, if you're seventy years old and your sidekick is 18, she's your kid sidekick), or you're willfully ignoring the troubling ramifications because you enjoy stories of that nature and don't want to deal with the fact that they might be glorifying manipulation and coercion.
This reminds me of all those rants from rabid Overwatch anti-shippers who claim that pairing Mercy with Pharah or Roadhog with Junkrat is literally pedophilia because those evil abusive predators Mercy and Roadhog are salivating at the possibility and have been on this Earth more than those poor innocent naive helpless childlike creatures Pharah and Junkrat, therefore to ship them together means you literally get off to exploiting literal children.
Rather than admit that they don't like it for personal reasons like just finding it gross (which they are entitled to do) they'd prefer to come up with a tortuous justification to go on a puritanical crusade forcing anyone who does like it to stop forever and ever because it's some sort of objective crime against humanity (which they are not).
>>246114 The hot new Social Justice (TM) meme in Tumblr shipping circles at the moment is to call any pairing you don't like pedophilia regardless of whether it even applies or not. And the more it obviously doesn't the more you will go to tortuous lengths to prove why it totally does, and to accuse anyone who's calling you out on being ridiculous of being pro-child abuse and who should have have their inbox flooded with gorepics, their personal information sent to the FBI, and murdered.
This stupid argument is basically ripped directly from the wankiest instances of that, to the point I wonder if it's a particularly "inspired" troll falseflagging moral outrage to drum up drama for shits and giggles.
>>246111 So then your actual argument seems to be "don't apply critical thought to Samurai Jack because I don't respect it as a piece of befits. "
Incidentally they MST3k mantra is meant to discourage wobbling about physics that aren't really relevant to the story--it would be hypocritical of a show like MST3k to say that questioning sloppy narrative's ramifications on characterization and unintended messages is silly given that those things are the source of 90% of MST3k's comedy.
Criticising the show’s pacing in regards to Ashi’s characterisation and such is all well and good. It is a legitimate and credible argument. But you have argued that her rushed characterisation makes Jack an ostensible rapist for sharing a kiss with her, which takes a legitimate criticism and turns it into an exercise in absurdity.
If you want to die on this hill, you should prepare to die alone.
>>246126 Jack is the source of literally all of Ashi's information about what healthy / affectionate relationships look like. She was given no context by her parents or upbringing to understand how social interactions are meant to work, and was given no social life for her entire life.
The first person who gave her any guidance in those areas is now banging her. Jack has put himself into the role of a teacher for her, and in fact it would not be hard to argue he has put himself into the role of a father figure for her. Are you honestly professing not to understand the problem in a teacher or parent fucking their student / child, regardless of age?
You know, not that this couldn’t be an interesting discussion, but I can see that you plan to die on this hill no matter what anyone says. You have fun defending it from invaders and shit. I will be over on some other hill watching the last two episodes of the show.
>>246128 You have not watched the show with over 20% attention it seems. She walked the earth, talked to people, and saw that Jack was right about everything. And you know what else? She observed nature, and let it speak to her. Trees, flowers, birds and butterflies taught her tons of shit.
Aside from the series-spanning conflict of Jack vs Aku and the season-long Ashi storyline—both of which will be resolved by the end credits—what the hell else is there to “conclude” that would require another episode?
Don't want to bring down anyone but have to agree with the more vocal posters on 4chan proper that in the end that Aishi was a negative addition to the show knocking-off TTGL's ending was just the last straw.
>>246210 I don't dislike her but having her turning good was extremely rushed and having her become a full love interest instead of staying a mostly platonic one with some hints of UST at most was a bad idea. A lot of the scenes with her didn't really add anything interesting besides an excuse for cameos and her most useful role as someone for Jack to consistently talk to and get over his angst through wasn't well utilized either since the Omen subplot was handled so badly.
You said “Watched the final episode, just ONE week late”. The finalé was technically delayed by a week because of the April Fools’ “Rick & Morty” surprise. Bringing up the “one week late” idea implies that you are still upset about “Samurai Jack” getting delayed by a week because [adult swim] decided to surprise viewers with a new “Rick & Morty” episode. I mean, the finalé only actually aired this past Saturday night, not eight nights ago.
So, I've mentioned this on regular /co/, but at the risk of sounding dense, I legit liked the ending.
What I soaked in the most with this ending was its visuals, since visual storytelling is what the show seems to excel at and places a bit more value on it than dialogue.
I felt that it was conveyed that Ashi suspected that she would die when killing Aku. Knowing this, she still went through with the plan, and in dying, she restored the world to the beauty and wonder that Jack once knew and believed that he would never see again. Making the world beautiful again as her last gift to him is something I found to be incredibly romantic, and I feel that the scene at the end under the tree was really beautiful and captured the sentiment well, particularly being a callback to the scene where Jack first shows Ashi the lone tree in Aku's wasteland, except now surrounded by vibrant life instead of death.
I also liked Ashi's journey. She was preprogrammed to eliminate Jack like so many of the robots we saw in the original run, and artistically I loved watching her transform from that to what she became at the end. I found it poetic that someone born in darkness that secretly always yearned for the beauty of the world to be shown that beauty by a man and then be the one to restore it for him and everyone else.
Also, I've started a rewatch of the season, which is helping me appreciate these things more.
Not saying it's the deepest thing ever, or that it was perfect, but I just found a lot of beauty to it that most of the criticisms don't address, and I found it more satisfying than not personally.
Something you might have missed: Everyone else may have figured out that helping Jack would erase their lives, too. In his message to the world, Aku said that Jack was trying to “undo the future that is Aku”. Helping Jack get back to the past would likely undo their lives as well—and yet, when the time came, nearly everyone Jack had helped along his journey rushed at Aku’s tower to return the favor.
All those people and creatures decided they would rather not exist than live one more moment under the tyranny of Aku. They gave up their lives—their entire existence—to help Jack undo Aku’s future. “Badass” does not even begin to describe that shit.
>>246241 A complaint I came across was that it was cruel and selfish for Jack and Ashi to erase them from existence (possibly, we can't know for sure who among them if any would exist in the future now), but like you said, I felt it was pretty evident that all of them felt that a future without Aku, even if it meant it was a future without them in it, was one that was worth fighting for.
Jack had chances to return to the past before this, but he would usually put others before his mission. In a sense it felt fitting that everyone he touched would help him achieve his goal. Especially Ashi, the one he changed the most, being the one to actually do it.
>>246249 Another criticism I read was that Ashi should've died in the future from Aku being defeated in the future first, or she should've pushed Jack through the portal so he would tragically go back to the past alone to avoid the time paradox death. But I guess the time paradox death didn't bother me as much as it did them. I feel that Jack being given the knowledge that killing Aku would make people--particularly Ashi--disappear, or being separated from her, would make him too distraught to kill Aku in the past, given that he prioritizes saving people from the future over fulfilling his quest.
Also, to address another complaint, I don't have as big a problem with Jack's "I love you!" saving them, considering that overcoming his anger and hate was a big theme for him this season, and the fact that loving someone born from the source of his hatred saved him felt kind of like a poetic culmination of that arc.
I mean, I'm no writer, so I won't say that it couldn't have been done a different way, but I was happy with what we got.
>>246287 Aku was thoroughly stomping everyone in the future. Also, I found it fitting, considering that he always get away from Jack because of his tendency to fight dirty, but this time it finally came back to bite him.