>>231722 I'm gonna let go of my fanboy zeal and say I'm actually looking forward to it. If anything, because I'm curious to see what they're doing - since its clearly not a retread of the previous movies nor the comics.
Man I don't know what to think anymore. On some pages Squirrel looks just as horrible as Mr. Stone says. On others she looks fine, like here. She, Hawkeye, and Black Widow are alright if extremely stylized but jesus Carol, Thor, and Cap are almost monstrous.
I’m never been a fan of the eye marks, so I have no problem with those being gone. As for the new outfit, I actually like it a little better than the old one—and if they stick with her backstory of being a runaway teenager who ended up in Central Park (because she wanted to fight crime in NYC), a clothing-based costume makes far more sense than the (presumably) spandex-based outfits she’s worn in the past.
Reminder that they weren't even Magneto's kids until like, the 80s, just a couple of gypsy mutant teenagers that he saved from an angry mob, and that there was a significant chunk of time where they were the son and daughter of the Whizzer and Miss America (which is clearly better because MONGOOSE BLOOD) until John Byrne had one of his dumb ideas.
So this is just retconning a retcon. http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2010/05/13/comic-book-legends-revealed-260/
I'm seeing all sorts of complaints about how AXIS is racist for painting minorities as evil and white people as heroic. Am I just too daft or do I need to start unfollowing some overly sensitive people?
>>231996 Most of the bawwing I'm seeing is over the Quicksilver and Wanda retcon. I'm kinda torn. It's painfully obvious it's being done for the sake of the movies which is really disappointing, and them turning out to be Inhumans is the last explanation I want after mutanthood. At the same time them being part of Magneto's family tree is as much of a burden as it is interesting, and it makes Polaris being his daughter that less egregious.
>>232009 I think they're changing their backstories to be empowered by the Infinity Stones. Makes sense from a certain standpoint I guess, Quicksilver's ability is to rapidly shift his location in Space while Scarlet Witch has the power to manipulate things with her Mind.
>>232127 That particular piece of art is pretty terrible but I'm glad they ditched the stupid eye-shield thingies of the original. Now if only they could restore Wiccan's old costume from his current abomination.
>>232128 Call me a bad feminist but I actually don't have a problem with superhero costumes being sexy as long as they're not ugly looking or extreme like Star Sapphire's. I'm glad they're changing Drew's because it was pretty ugly, but stuff like Ms. Marvel's leotard-sash or the Scarlet Witch were perfectly fine. I do have a feeling it's preparation for Spider-Woman possibly being in the MCU down the line though.
>>232131 Nothing in that paragraph makes you a bad feminist, dude.
That said, yeah its rad! Its sorta what this age requires out of superhero costumes. Practicality, and screen-readiness. Skintight spandex - lazy design passing as "genre clothes" doesn't really have as much a place this day and age.
To anyone that wonders why Marvel keeps killing and bring back its heroes.
>Peter Parker‘s return as Spider-Man, after nearly a year and a half away, gave Marvel Comics the top-selling comic book of 2014, according to the primary distributor of comic books in North America.
>Marvel, home to the Avengers and the X-Men in addition to Spider-Man, was 2014′s top-selling publisher in the comic-book specialty market, Diamond said, with about a 34% market share in terms of dollars and about a 37% share in terms of units sold
Rocket Raccoon was one of the top-selling comics, so that's cool.
I hate to come wandering in begging questions, but I've been out of the loop with Marvel for a while now and am kinda interested in keeping up with Spider-Gwen's story. So far the only thing she's been in is Edge of Spiderverse #2, and then her own series starts in April, yeah? Or am I missing stuff?
>>232635 Didn't they sort of do this a year or so ago with Ultimate ending?
Also Slott has caused me to become completly numb and uncaring to any and everything Marvel writes these days. I want to like it again, I want to read again, I want to experiance the roll reversal stuff they're doing in the current event, but I'm not about to crawl back on my hands and knees. It's an abusive relationship.
>>232640 50 years of outdated and mostly irrelevant stories are not an advantage.
The advantage Marvel had was that other than ones specific to characters, like Teen Tony or the Spider-Marriage, they didn't do terrible stories about their continuity and changing it.
Reboots are good and often necessary. Marvel needs one. But where comics always fucks them up is thinking there needs to be a story that gives an in-continuity explanation for the reboot. Every DC hero's life is different because Barry Allen is a momma's boy. The Earth-3 Lex Luthor was messing with reality and it changed who killed Batman's parents. Spider-Man isn't married because he made a deal with the devil to save his elderly aunt. They try to have it both ways. Rebooting but doing a story that makes it clear everything still happened and these are the same characters you've always been reading. There wasn't a movie about how the Sam Raimi Spider-Man became the Amazing Spider-Man. The first episode of Batman: The Brave and the Bold wasn't about what happened to Batman: The Animated Series.
>>232651 I'd say a willingness to have entirely separate universes, like the Ultimate one, that don't "collide" with each other, is exactly what allows them to avoid a lot of needless in-continuity explanations.
>>232651 Having a bajillion separate universes and not really caring is what lets them experiment with stuff like Marvel 1602 without having to worry about causing problems in the main continuity like they did with a set number of Earth-1 and Earth-2s and so on like DC had.
>>233073 The change in design itself, I like. But yeah it seriously needs a change of artist. Aside from the top right panel (which is just styled enough to look like Steven Universe fanart) it's a parade of QUALITY and weak coloring.
>>233073 >even if this was just someones webcomic the art would still be below average. I think maybe you haven't read many webcomics. Like maybe you only read the webcomics that are popular, so you're thinking "average" for webcomics art is a considerably higher bar than it is. There are a lot more xkcds than there are Unsoundeds.
>>233082 >We're not talking about story, we're talking about art, everyone knows GG is great with mediocre art. I *am* talking about art. You seem to be basing what you consider "average" art not on "average for webcomics" but on "average among webcomics that have art that is better than a certain arbitrarily defined threshold." Like I said, Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff is closer to average among webcomic art than Girl Genius is. As crappy as GG's art is, it is well above average.
>>233100 >When I draw like that, people fucking hate me and troll me so hard that I delete all my shit. >When Marvel draws like that, people buy it and the artist get paid. Damn this world.
The lesson you should be taking from this is to stop listening to the internet's opinion about your work and seek validation from within. You can sell comics that look like this to people, too, if you work at it. Stop giving up just because the internet loves shitting on things even if they happily throw money at it.
>>233114 Style is not an excuse for bad art. I can understand willful stylization but in this case it just looks like the artist is incompetent when it comes to anatomy (lopsided faces, oddly located features such as the nose being parallel to the eyes rather than below them, general wall-eye, misshapen lips with folds where they shouldn't exist, bizarre and inconsistent proportions). If the artist drew consistently good work beforehand or made it clear that the art problems were an intentional choice to convey some point then sure, but so far it just looks like they don't know how to draw.
>>233119 If you spend much time learning to draw, you learn to recognize certain things in other people's art that makes it obvious when someone's doing something because they don't know better and when they're doing it because that's what they wanted to do. Based on what I know of drawing, I agree with>>233114. The art in this comic doesn't look like someone who doesn't know what they're doing. It looks like someone who is intentionally choosing to draw in a way that runs counter to the usual rules of appealing art. Now why they're trying to do that, I can't say. But it definitely looks like something they're doing on purpose.
>>233120 Also, you gotta consider the fact that professional comic book artists (especially big 2) have to go a long way to even enter most editors' radars. Its mingling, but also skill. You need a portfolio they like, experience and being able to work in the industry system.
This style is something the inprint, editor and artist were on the same page on regarding this particular release. Just because the art's divorced from the in-house style, or of cape comics in general, doesn't mean the style itself is wrong, or the artist is unknowledgable. Not without its snafus but that goes without saying. But hey, I can even tell you several points in which the book's artist is more skilled at than a few established industry professionals.
>>233140 It's true. There's some stuff with huge technical proficiency but a complete lack of compositional skills and terrible visual storytelling. Greg Land comes to mind.
Really the only things that are objectionable about this art are the faces on the character designs. The bodies, the composition, the proportion, the poses, they're all fine. Better than a lot of what else is out there, even.
>>233182 I don't think so. The most recent alt cover is a perfect example of what squirrel girl could've been: bubbly, kind of off-beat style. flat, unique colours, cartoony expressions and nice swooping lines. etc etc
You can have a different style from most other comics without looking godawful
OK so this is kind of a dumb question but how is Miss America Chavez Hispanic if she comes from an alternate dimension where such concepts of ethnicity don't even exist? For that matter, a representative of America if she isn't even from a world with America in it? Unless they were migrants from the real world?
I say this as someone who really wanted to own this comic: the inner art really is god-fucking-awful. That Gurihiru pic is a perfect example of what this comic SHOULD have looked like. But now we're stuck with art that makes Doreen look like she got hit with a frying pan, saw that her face stuck that way, and got collagen injections into her lips to make up for it. I've said it before, I'll say it again - she didn't have to be supermodel gorgeous, but she didn't have to be butt-ugly, either.
>>233202 While I agree the interior art in this series isn't appealing, Gurihiru is, in my opinion, the best art team working on comics right now, and maybe ever. Comparing anything to the Gurihiru version is pretty much always going to come up with the non-Gurihiru option looking worse. So it's not really a fair comparison.
>>233205 Holy shit that mouth looks like it's on completely backwards. That or she's suffering from a bad case of anime sidemouth.
>>233213 Even the squirrels themselves look so much better too. Far more animated and with more character than the amorphous blobs of the regular artwork. It can't be that hard to add a few strokes to suggest fur so that there's more visual variety on the pages.
Okay fine it's both, is that what you want? But I'm not trying to say Doreen should be a 10/10 or anything. Hell, there's a redline sketch in >>233092 that shows a number of issues with the art that could be fixed while keeping Doreen's general appearance intact.
I know I sound like a sexist asshat when I say this, but I didn't want to pick up this book and see an "ugly" Squirrel Girl inhabiting the pages. (Fire thine arrows, Tumblr!) But I didn't want a "super-sexy" Squirrel Girl, either. Gurihiru's version of Doreen strikes the perfect balance between "cute" and "attractive" that would've made this comic a joy to read. If that makes me a bastard...well, I've called myself worse things.
>>233217 Can you stop being deliberately obtuse? No one here is talking about her design not having sex appeal. All we're saying is that the art is hideous and, in turn, makes her look hideous. It's hard to keep your mind on the story when all you're thinking is "eugh this ART". I had the same reaction during Larroca's run on Iron Man and it ruined my experience with those books too.
P.S. Not that it should matter, but I'm a straight woman. My opinion has nothing to do with "would not fuck"
>>233209 Even if Doreen was actually ugly I would've been perfectly fine with that so long as it looked like it was the result of proper artwork like Bueno Excelente, and not incompetence like that one cover of Squirrel Girl imagining herself with all the other heroes where everybody literally looked like a Super Mutant. I understand the appeal of making Doreen "plain" as a response to the unrealistic beauty standards set up by comics, but but when even people like Steve Rogers and Black Widow who are supposed to be really attractive in canon end up looking deformed, it comes off less like a conscious choice and more like plain old inadequacy.
>>233225 It's a non-argument seeing that in the pics where she's unattractive so is everyone else (to the point that in >>231801 she looks like a goddamn beauty next to Steve Ogre), and in the variant covers she's fat and attractive at the same time.
>>233234 >This isn't a....style issue It is though. I mean you can scream till you're blue in the face that it's not about style, but the thing you are upset about is literally the style in which the artist chose to do it. Whether you're right about the conclusion you came to or not, you are using incorrect vocabulary if you define this as something other than an issue of style.
>>233235 Chosing to draw badly doesn't prevent you from criticism and people complaints. Saying "it's his/her style" is admitting it's shit, because the only thing you can do from there is deflect with potential better work of the artist.
>>233236 It's not that I disagree with people. It's that people are trying to make their opinions, which I agree with incidentally, sound like they are objective facts rather than emotional reactions. And that is wrong.
>>233237 No, it doesn't. But when you criticize something you should be accurate in your criticisms. You don't get to say "This isn't an issue of style" when it's an issue of style.
If we're talking about style, I think its about what metric we're evaluating the art quality on. People have said its more of a webcomic art-wise than a big 2 comic.
That said, it has better composition, posing, anatomy and work than quite a big 2 comics, even if its stylistically alternative. And its also way better than so many webcomics, but given how publishing works there, its pretty much a given.
Honestly at this point, I think the problem is more about the reader. This is a style, and a valid one at that. The characters look ugly - there's no appeal or use of line economy facially. Thats a deliberate choice and one you don't like. You don't like it. And that's okay. God knows I have my fair share of artwork I gag at - and observing art with a critical eye is important!
That said, there's a point where it IS indeed just picking at it because its different, and THEN trying to rationalize it as somethng else. And there's nitpicking, and of course even when its a style an artist can fuck up. That shit happens! A lot!! But you can't be artgerm in every panel.
Here, let me demonstrate what I mean about it being purely an issue of style. In a book with bad art, simply redrawing the face and reusing the hair shouldn't be enough to really "fix" a bad picture. Bad art has things wrong throughout the entire drawing, not just a weird way of drawing faces.
This is one of the cover images by Henderson herself, with the face replaced with one in the Gurihiru style. For fun I also did one where I replaced the hair with the hair from Gurihiru's character design.
Admittedly, I'm not Gurihiru. But I think this demonstrates well enough that what we're talking about here is not incompetence on Henderson's part, but design choices she and the editorial team has made that many of us disagree with.
I've never really had an issue with the bodies in Squirrel Girl. Those are fine. It's just the faces that really bother me. But when they're done so inconsistently across the board and it's not just limited to one character that's when things start to look kind of iffy. It's not an uncommon problem as I've seen a fair share of amateur artists on Tumblr who can draw bodies just fine but flounder about as soon as they go above the neck. Also faces are a key fixture on people so errors there are going to be a lot more noticeable. Now if someone can provide pieces of work by the artist where they do draw the faces looking a lot more normal and proportional than this comic then I'll eat my words.
>In a book with bad art, simply redrawing the face and reusing the hair shouldn't be enough to really "fix" a bad picture.
Ha ha, what? Says who?
Take Girl Genius for example. You've got solid artwork everywhere except for the faces, which are complete train wrecks. Even if its the artist's intention to make derpy, unappealing faces doesn't mean the artwork isn't "bad," particularly when we are going by the medium of comic books whose whole purpose is to produce a marketable product for mass audiences.
>>233262 I swear, half of the posts you make are either about pissing on Marvel or stroking the e-peens of the competition over comparatively nothing. Are you capable of enjoying things for themselves and not seeing it as a giant dickwaving competition?
>>233260 literally who cares about the technicalities or proper terminology or whatever you're going on about. The faces look bad. Style, talent, whatever you want to call/excuse it doesn't change that. Faces = first/major thing most people focus on. Faces here look bad. People will think fixate on that and comment on it. Bogging it down with "well TECHNICALLY" talk doesn't change that fact
>>233267 This isn't a matter of technicalities. It is a matter of someone saying "This isn't about style!" when it is about style. What you're asking me to do is to not call out factually wrong statements because it interrupts your bitchfest. Go ahead with your bitchfest! Just say what's actually bothering you instead of expecting people to allow you to get away with saying things that are not true when you do.
Holy shit, nobody cares. If it's a deliberate stylistic choice, then it was an ill-advised one. Saying that it's an issue of style doesn't actually address the main concern, which is that the art looks bad. The only actual difference between an artist who can't draw and an artist who is doing bad art on purpose is that one of them ought to know better.
>>233340 I just hope someday we could see a western pokemon comic. I love the manga, but hell if I'm not interested in seeing what a take on the story and universe would be like with current comic talent.
Since nobody noticed the first time around, anyone who's read the Gillen run of Young Avengers know how Miss America can be Hispanic when she comes from a dimension where the concept of Latin America and Spanish probably don't exist?
>>233646 I guess, but I'd think someone who goes by the name America would have a direct connection to the land or its peoples beyond just the name. It's a little bit weird, like a character from the planet Vegeta happening to be named Ronald Mimsey-Poppington and becoming the new Captain Britain or having a Russian name and becoming a KGB spy.
>>233651 I know that. I wasn't saying Latin America wasn't America, but that America Chavez is only (Latin) American in name only. She's an alien from another dimension who coincidentally looks and sounds like our Hispanic culture for no real reason, unless her dimension consists of people kidnapped from our IRL universe. From what I can tell she doesn't have the excuse Superman has either of being as good as an American native despite her extradimensional origins. I think if they really wanted Hispanic representation on the team they should've created an actual, explicitly Hispanic character with an origin directly connected to the Americas they're supposed to represent, rather than just being coded that way.
At least with the Martian Manhunter his John Jones disguise is that, a disguise. He wasn't actually named with something that came straight from a language that doesn't exist on Mars. Same with how Captain Marvel wasn't actually named Walter Lawson, despite looking like a WASP (and even then Kree who look like Earthlings are supposed to be considered freaks of nature compared to the blue ones).
>>233661 >I think if they really wanted Hispanic representation on the team they should've created an actual, explicitly Hisp No no I actually like her. She's good. So she's an alien, who gives a fuck, so's the Kryptonians and nobody's going all "their caucasianess should be more naturally introduced into the character."
>>233664 I know I sound nitpicky but now that we're in modern times we really should though. Maybe the Kryptonians aren't such a great example because of the grandfather clause and the fact that looking like a typical early 1900's WASP was a core part of Superman's concept.
>>233666 Maybe, but its a shitty af double standard whenever a minority in the US gets introduced people are always griping about it not being 'introduced naturally' and I just want to have my miss america chavez. She's great. She's good enough.
>>233666 >looking like a typical early 1900's WASP was a core part of Superman's concept. Which is kind of a shame given that despite his official story, everything about Superman makes him make more sense as Jewish than a WASP.
>>234180 The series itself is not very good at all and neither is the way Thoress has been handled, but between its and Kamala's success hopefully more comics will be less afraid of having leading superheroines.
>>234180 I really want this to get better and for them to tell us who she is. That mystery isn't really drawing me in and is more annoying than something I care to see revealed. Be weird if its some kinda Mantra (spirit of a man in the body of a woman) thing. That being the spirit of Eric Masterson merged with whomever this person is. One willing to wield the hammer and the other capable of such a thing.
>>234215 I like the art, but yeah the comic really needs a new writer or direction. Would've been better if the character was introduced first before wielding the hammer, or if they didn't drag that aspect out so fucking long. It's such a snoozefest.
>>234215 This is clearly done with a certain audience in mind. And given sales, I'd say that audience is responding favourably. At this point it doesn't matter how they market it or if I personally like their advertising work. Peeps are voting with their wallets.
but yeah, her as a character could be handled a little better. Hey, if it hits a home run no reason why that can't happen later.
>>234255 They should have just revealed who she was to the audience rather than keep this big mystery. It doesn't help that the writing keeps going about the whole "she a girl" schtick. It's like they care more that she is a female wielding the hammer of Thor than who the character is. It's Red Hulk all over again.
>>234258 That's why I don't like the new FemThor. It's supposed to be progressive, but the execution turned out to be just what I feared, the most patronizing form of "grrl power" instead. Seriously, it reads just like a bad Mary Sue fanfiction.
Carol Danvers Captain Marvel may be a pile of bland mediocrity, but it does the empowered female schtick much, much better. So do Kamala and Black Widow's new solo, which also have the benefit of being good in general. There's no reason to settle for bad comics just because of the message in them when you could read better ones just because they're less overt about it.
>>234263 >Seriously, it reads just like a bad Mary Sue fanfiction. A shitload of superhero stuff reads just like bad Gary Stu fanfiction. At worst its on par with mediocre stuff. But you know what? It gets a pass from me personally because at the very least its made with the intention of TRYING something new instead of being a re-tread of everything else.
Pandery? Sure. But what isn't. inb4 thats no excuse
>>234269 Seriously, all the attention that keeps being brought to her gender like it should still be such a big deal is actually pretty regressive almost to the point of offensiveness IMO. I don't have a problem with the concept, and the art is nice, but calling the writing "on par with mediocre stuff" is being a little generous. The Agent Carter TV series tackled some similar issues with a lot more maturity, so it's not like it can't be done, but Aaron just can't write worth a damn.
Well there was that time when he was in Oklahoma but everyone hated that.
And then there was that time the Avengers were out of the West Coast but everyone hated that.
Pretty much every time heroes aren't in New York sales are middling. So Marvel does the thing that sells. It sucks but that's what happens when you have a business making comics and not a single author/artist.
>>234685 >Ms Marvel Yay! >Silk Boooo. I'm tired of people extolling her simply because she's "WOC" despite all the bad writing and the fact that she's a borderline rapist with those pheromone powers. Being Asian and female myself, she's not the kind of character I'd be proud of. Maybe she's better now that Slott's not writing her, though Supernatural isn't a particularly sterling resume either. >Thor Also boo, but with Mark Waid penning the new Avengers, hopefully he'll be for her what Joe Kelly was to Deadpool. >all-female Avengers I have mixed feelings about the lineup, but since G. Willow Wilson is working on it I'm looking forward to it.
>>235012 >America Chavez on the team Why? We already got Falcon on the team, no need for another patriot-themed hero. >giving Tony Stark a boyfriend Fuck no that would strike of tokenism, especially when the current team has been trying its damn hardest to avoid that.
>>235013 To be fair Iceman has had gay rumors for decades, so if any of the more famous X-Men it would've been him. Still though aside from the crummy execution I'm uncomfortable with how it rehashes the garbage a lot of gay biphobes like to say, even if it's clear that's not what they intended.
>>235017 I'd have been fine with bi. But this is basically that page with the Watcher telling Squirrel Girl she beat the for real Thanos, but with Jean telling Bobby he's pure gay and without it being a joke.
As is, it means all the straight romances he's had- Most of which we've had access to his thoughts during, were the product of desperate self deception, and wholly invalidated.
Personally, it sets him up to be on the level of one of those gay bashing politicians that eventually gets caught having a gay affair. It permanently and almost fundamentally hurts the character.
But then again, this is the same franchise that is apparently trying to redeem Bishop after having him kick every puppy ever on the way to villainy.
>>235035 She looks sort of cute in the left one. Then it goes the window in the middle one. I know that's supposed to be part of her suit but it makes her face look lopsided. Rhymin' Galactus makes me feel weird things.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/in-your-face-jam-about-that-gay-iceman-scene It's entirely possible the scene was intentionally awful and Jean said that to Bobby because she was just being an asshole. Apparently there's more to be said on this subject so we'll just have to wait and see a little.
You know what I always thought would be a Cool Superhero team? Hawkeye(after becoming deaf) or Maya Lopez, Daredevil and T'challa Udaku (The mute version of black panther though granted he's from the Ultimates universe) or Mute who was also Wakandan but despite being a bad guy hasn't been used in like 35 years so you could retool him pretty easy.
Like a No Evil team, See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil.
>>235403 Why? Outside of Amazing Spider-Man, Marvel is publishing some good shit lately. I'm personally enjoying how Marvel has been diversifying its lineup with more female heroes, better costume designs and alternate art styles that lean towards cartoony.
>>235404 As shocking as this may be, I feel quite the opposite, as Marvel Studios movies are usually mediocre. (Which always gets me crucified.)
>>235407 >I think by Phase Three's end, I'll probably be as burnt out on superhero flicks as a lot of film critics seem to be these days.
I'm sorta there already. Forgive me for going off topic here, but regardless of personal opinions towards Marvel and DC movies, we've already seen what they're capable of. I doubt the next film from either of them will subvert expectations that they've already established.