/a/ - Avatar

Thank you Amazon and Google for making me download the itunes rip so I can avoid spoilers because you didn't release it tonight. Good show.

>Turns out Kuvira is purging ethnic minorities.
GODFUCKINGDAMMIT!!!

So let me get this straight: Mako has fucked Asami and Mako has fucked Korra and after 3 years now Korra's flustered by Asami and misses the angry sex with Mako and Asami's letting Mako's family live in her fucking house and Wuko has hit on Asami and now he's hit on Korra and Mako has seen Wu's dick everyday for 3 years and now Wu's gonna fuck Mako's grandma. Did I get that all right?

>>118518
There's a simpler explanation: Dating Mako turned Korra gay, Dating Mako turned Asami gay, Dating Korra and Asami turned Mako gay.

>>118517

Welp, that'll stop people from saying that she's being "designated a bad guy purely due to being the antagonist" like some sections of the fanbase said about Zaheer and Amon... even though Zaheer originally planned to kidnap and poison a child to death... and Amon effected wanted to make the Air Nomads truely extinct by removing their bending...

That ending though... looks like a certain someone'll be back in the show soon. Yay!

So magazine that Asami had with the Lady Engineer and Lady Scientist. Anyone seen a translation of the part that was shown?

>>118520
I'm just disappointed, I thought they were going for a more ambiguous situation by making a former ally of the heroes the main villain and with everything they've established about Kuvira's character and backstory I thought that they were going for a fallen hero whose good intentions went too far sort of thing. But nope, turns out she's just a huge racist! And the worst thing is that they haven't earned this plot point, they never established that Kuvira harboured any racism towards the other elements, and suddenly we just get straight up ethic cleansing dropped into our laps?

Bolins gets the best fight scenes lately.

>>118522
I wouldn't call that racism, it's more like separatism.

>>118522

She can be both a fallen hero and a huge racist, both Sokka and Zuko weren't exactly that enlightened when it came to other cultures ("Fire Nation Savages" for example) until they started travelling more. Plus we don't know at this point whether she actually believes her own press, or is just using foreigners as a scapegoat for her country's problems.

Plus the fascist imagery with Kuvira was pretty clear from the start, it would be kind dishonest if they didn't include nationalism-based racism in there. Like how the Marvel film version of Hydra is technically a Neo-Nazi organisation, yet the modern members seems to go through great lengths to emphasise that they're "totally not Nazis, guys!".

>>118525
Yea there is precedent, Fire Nation reduced anyone in the SWT that so much as splashed a puddle to a black smear back during the Hundred Years period.

I really want to see something of what lead Kuvira down this path. I still think its something of she went into this with noble intentions to start but then was tainted by encountering something like warlords ruling over some provinces that the queen had allowed only because she got the taxes.

>>118525
I get that they were going for Fascism parallels from the start, that much was obvious. But there are many examples of Fascist and militant Nationalist movements from our own history that didn't base their ideology on racism (The Kuomintang, The Brazilian Integralists, The British Union of Fascists, hell the original Italian Fascists too, before Mussolini got a boner for Hitler's success and started aping everything he said and did) and I thought that they would go for a more nuanced portrayal of what Kuvira was doing given that she, by all appearances at least, started out as a good person with geed intentions.

>>118527
Make that "good person with GOOD intentions", learn to proof-read, brain.

>>118526
Yeah, there's precedent for the elements hating each other in general, I'm saying that there's no precedent for Kuvira or her movement harbouring racist attitudes, you can't just go from zero to final solution, if you're going to introduce that sort of thing into your story, you have to build up to it.

Also, on a lighter note, how would you react if the explanation was "firebender killed her parents".

>>118529
Would be Par the Course, be interesting to see how the Fire Avatar would handle that if the Earth one has similar encounters. Fire Avatar talking with Korra and their Earth Predecessor investigative discussion about why they Keep running into people that have been traumatized by Fire Benders in particular even after the Hundred Years period.

Its all another secret society thing.

>>118527
The "fallen hero" angle would've been way better if she was actually ever portrayed as being genuinely righteous or sincere, or got more development before the time skip. Toph's message of balance vs extremism is kind of undermined when your villain isn't even motivated by extremism so much as just self-interest. A villain like that is fine in and of itself with the right writing, but if the goal is to discredit fascism as an ideology, then Kuvira just comes off as a massive political strawman. In this respect Kuvira is an even poorer villain than Amon.

I was a little worried about the mechs when I saw them in the trailer, but I like how they're handled. They're not invincible, but they pose a formidable threat and characters don't turn stupid when fighting them, the way that one adapted against the team effort from fire and waterbending was awesome.

>>118530
You know, now that I think about it they could still pull off Kuvira being a misguided fallen hero, but they would need to give her a Magneto-style backstory to explain her hatred of the other elements, like her family was killed by neo-sozinist firebenders and she was enslaved by sleazy waterbender pirates before Suyin found her, that sort of thing.

>>118533
That is quite possible seeing that Su took her in when she was eight for reasons we don't know yet.

>>118535
Bryke might want to be careful because they might be treading dangerously close to queerbaiting -- not that Korra has to be in love with Asami to blush at something she said, since I think considering what she thought of Asami when she first met she would be flattered if Asami complimented her physical appearance. Yeah I still don't think Korrasami is happening.

>>118536
They keep hitting a lot of relationship comparisons so I've no clue where they are going with things. Though the Evolution of that particular paring from Book 1 Jokey Crackship to now and the actual legit considerations people outside the fandom give it.

Even Mako has to take notice something is up

Its overall an interesting development both for the show and some culture aspects just in the last few years.

>>118537
What's with the weird random caps and punctuation in all of your posts?

>>118536
>Yeah I still don't think Korrasami is happening.
Yeah, not viable for at least ten more years.

But in the meantime, I can enjoy what's at least a nice friendship so far.

>>118527

Oswald Mosley was hella racist, mate.

>118531


I think that in the flashback with Su, they at least implied that Kuvira was initially driven by the desire to bring order to her country and spread the progressive gospel her surrogate mother taught her... that at least implied that she had the right idea, before she went all "We must annex our all land that was historially part of the Earth Kingdom, MWHAHAHA!"

>>118540
Sorry, in the context of talking about Fascists my brain always fudges "didn't hate jews" and "not racist at all" together.

The word you are looking for in describing Kuvira's actions is Sectarianism, she is an earth kingdom loyalist and sees it as the greatest nation on the planet.

The plot of this episode was full of holes.

Why did no one expect Korra to be able to deal with Kuvira? How did they know that Korra was still having problems fighting and couldn't use the Avatar state?

Why are there water and fire benders in the Earth Empire? It would make sense for non-earth benders to be near Republic City, the Water Tribes, or the Fire Nation but Varrick and Bolin don't seem to be near either of them.

Why didn't Bolin's use his earthbend to tunnel under a metal wall?

Why didn't Mako use his police powers to stop all the trains? He could have simply gone to the station master, explained he was a detective, and had the trains stopped while they looked for Wu.

Why is Korra able to fight without any problems now? It seems that Korra only gets weak when the plot demands it.

Why did Mako, Asami, and Korra start talking normal after escaping Kuvira's men? There could have been more soldiers nearby or the ones on the train could have stopped it and come after them? They should have gotten Wu to a safer location.

Why is Kuvira trying to kidnap Wu now rather than before she announced her coup d'etat or before moving her forces to Zaofu?

>118545
>Why did no one expect Korra to be able to deal with Kuvira? How did they know that Korra was still having problems fighting and couldn't use the Avatar state?

It'd make sense for the Messiah figure's state of being would be common knowledge to world leaders at the very least. Its not everyday they break their backs and can't walk. The Avatar State, though - yeah that's up there.

>Why are there water and fire benders in the Earth Empire? It would make sense for non-earth benders to be near Republic City, the Water Tribes, or the Fire Nation but Varrick and Bolin don't seem to be near either of them.
That's actually tackled in the Dark Horse comics. But you could easily just chalk it up to "globalization."

>Why didn't Bolin's use his earthbend to tunnel under a metal wall?
Valid, but I can imagine it'd be bullshit writing.

>Why didn't Mako use his police powers to stop all the trains? He could have simply gone to the station master, explained he was a detective, and had the trains stopped while they looked for Wu.
Is he still a policeman? Or is he sorta 'demoted' to a hired private bodyguard?
And is a mere detective poweful enough to lockdown an entire train station in the age that was completely defined by communication via train?

>Why is Korra able to fight without any problems now? It seems that Korra only gets weak when the plot demands it.
The needs of the plot outweigh the needs of the logic. You can't compare this episode's conflict to the last one's though.

>Why did Mako, Asami, and Korra start talking normal after escaping Kuvira's men? There could have been more soldiers nearby or the ones on the train could have stopped it and come after them? They should have gotten Wu to a safer location.
Because writing and story beats.

>Why is Kuvira trying to kidnap Wu now rather than before she announced her coup d'etat or before moving her forces to Zaofu?
Would that make sense, diplomatically?

>The plot of this episode was full of holes.
Stacy, you always say that.

>>118545
>Why did no one expect Korra to be able to deal with Kuvira? How did they know that Korra was still having problems fighting and couldn't use the Avatar state?
I'm not sure what you mean? Only people who seemed to know Korra was struggling were Tenzin and Asami, and then Korra says it outloud at the beginning of the episode.

>Why are there water and fire benders in the Earth Empire?
They moved there.

>Why didn't Bolin's use his earthbend to tunnel under a metal wall?
Yeah this one is valid but maybe the walls went underground.

>Why is Korra able to fight without any problems now? It seems that Korra only gets weak when the plot demands it.
She always messes up with her fights against the big bads but does well against their mooks. Plus those guys were not really throwing very impressive bending and they didn't have the same presence Kuvira does.

>Why did Mako, Asami, and Korra start talking normal after escaping Kuvira's men? There could have been more soldiers nearby or the ones on the train could have stopped it and come after them? They should have gotten Wu to a safer location.
This just seems like cherrypicking. Korra just jumped from a moving train with three people at a drop of over 50 feets, I don't think there was anything wrong with them thinking they have a few moments to catch their breath and figure out what they need to do.

>Why is Kuvira trying to kidnap Wu now rather than before she announced her coup d'etat or before moving her forces to Zaofu?
We probably need to wait and see. Maybe these guys weren't acting on her orders but thought she'd like having him locked up just in case people decided to rally and rebel in his name. Maybe she DOES want him for that exact reason.

>>118545
>The plot of this episode was full of holes.
Let's see about that.

>How did they know that Korra was still having problems fighting and couldn't use the Avatar state?
Who knows, maybe Tenzin seeing her getting her ass kicked by the same trainers she obliterated when she was 17 had something to do with it. Or the fact that she addressed the Avatar state stuff in her letter to Asami. Why would they assume she got better after showing no progress in her recovery and disappearing for six months?

Not a hole.

>Why are there water and fire benders in the Earth Empire? It would make sense for non-earth benders to be near Republic City, the Water Tribes, or the Fire Nation but Varrick and Bolin don't seem to be near either of them.
The other anon addressed this, but even without the comics, I don't see how this could be remotely considered a hole. Waterbenders were in EK and FN even during ATLA.


>Why didn't Bolin's use his earthbend to tunnel under a metal wall?
That's silly, going through earth it's not the same as swimming, you can't simply make earth disappear. They would have needed a small dig site and much more time, with the risk of getting busted by a patrol And if the guards noticed as they passed (suspect underground noises or movement) they could've simply sunk Bolin and the others. Would also have been boring and pointless to watch.

Not a hole.

>Why didn't Mako use his police powers to stop all the trains? He could have simply gone to the station master, explained he was a detective, and had the trains stopped while they looked for Wu.
He's not a detective anymore, as clearly stated in another episode, do you even watch the show? And even if he was, he had no time and leverage for an immediate lockdown.

Not a hole.


>Why is Korra able to fight without any problems now? It seems that Korra only gets weak when the plot demands it.
She fought some mooks and didn't even do anything spectacular (and she still got thrown around a bit), how does this compare with fighting Kuvira?

Again, not a hole.

>>118545
>The plot of this episode was full of holes.
http://badassdigest.com/2012/10/30/film-crit-hulk-smash-hulk-vs.-plot-holes-and-movie-logic

Page isn't loading for me at the moment so here's the cached version:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:zo4PSTC5VwcJ:badassdigest.com/2012/10/30/film-crit-hulk-smash-hulk-vs.-plot-holes-and-movie-logic/+http://badassdigest.com/2012/10/30/film-crit-hulk-smash-hulk-vs.-plot-holes-and-movie-logic/&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I've noticed no other season has come as close to having the animation quality (fluidity, amount of keyframes) of the first half of Book 1.

Did they put a higher budget into it because it was JUST gonna be those 12 episodes?

>>118550
Toph is love
Toph is life

>>118536
On the queerbating, here's a post I found on Tumblr

>"it’s a great way, it’s a valid way" - bryke

>saying “canon” doesn’t even have to be an exaggeration anymore. this is legitimately meant to be read as romantic. even if this is all nick ever allows in the show we have strong implications, we have word of god, and we still have the future comics where more explicit romance can likely be included. we still have 6 episodes for more of this. and don’t you dare tell me this isn’t at the level of bubbline, madoka x homura, utena x anthy…insert whatever other lady x lady ship is heavily implied in canon here.

>blushes in avatar have always indicated romantic feelings

>this is canon

So, yeah, this could go bad, if this ramps up in late episodes, only for Korra to get back with Mako in the end.

I'm fine with implications, as long as it's sincere and not bait.

>>118553
Interestingly enough, on "blushes always meaning romantic feelings":
http://ikkinthekitsune.tumblr.com/post/102668302478/ive-seen-blushes-always-imply-romance-in-the

Also it was confirmed LOK isn't getting any comics, only ATLA is. The word of god is also incredibly debatable, it might just be Bryke know better than to insult the only gay ship to really gain traction with the fandom (also Bryke might not have a problem with the ship like it seems they did with Zutara so they don't feel the need to say anything negative about it). Never mind that after saying that, Bryan goes on to say something about how despite what the fans want, you have to tell the story YOU want to tell, which imo implies Korrasami isn't happening.

>mfw I watched Korra meeting Asami again

//youtube.com/watch?v=h_9ATQFgu9o

>>118553
Yea couple of lines Mako seems to get what is going on between them, maybe.
This is a lot of feeling stuff to plug in and then toss away.

The way they handled arguments is something to note. Korra doesn't want to escalate a fight with Asami yet she and Mako just start tearing into each other.


Also in IRL talk recent podcast interviews lean toward the ending being open with Korra not pairing with anyone. Such as Varney quietly whispering "no" when the topic of Makorra reuniting is mentioned

>>118554

Though its a common enough trope with Anime and back then it was used as we saw but mainly to bolster that awful tangle of love triangles from book 1.

>>118551
This season was developed alongside book 3, so there's probably a minor budget. They're saving the best stuff for the finale like they always do.

>>118556
Well that Mako and Korra fight played out exactly like one of their book one arguments, when they actually liked each other. Plus Mako was also possibly acting from hurt feelings over the letter thing, which I would say is valid. I don't really think this was Bryke's way of saying Makorra doesn't work because they fight.

>>118558
Oh and on Janet saying no or not liking Makorra, for every time she tries to shoot it down David comes back with more positive reinforcement. You can't really take what the VAs say for fact when it comes to this sort of thing.

>>118559
Seriously, people putting stock into what the Avatar voice actors think for shipping reminds me of the deranged Avengers fujoshi who honestly believe that Tony and Steve are going to be a canon couple and hate Pepper because of the comments RDJ or whoever made. It's dumb and reeks of obsessive shipping goggles.

>>118554
On that front I wonder if any Korrasami fans are ex-Borra shippers. I wonder how that ship is doing anyway. Even though it's dead in the water it's still cute in a what if sense.

>>118561
Maybe a few as that whole bit from book 1 building up him having a chance but then smashing it on the rocks for silly romance triangle nonsense.

Few still draw the occasional fanart of what might have been. Bit sad as it would have been cute.

Korrasami has that odd history of being a non serious lark for Books 1-2 and then we get Book 3 which ends up doing relationship parallels with Book 1 and ATLA with the two. So its left some hopeful, a few confused and a small percentage angry and full of hate over a Homosexual Ship getting this much attention.

>>118562
>Book 3 which ends up doing relationship parallels with Book 1 and ATLA with the two
What. I think you're reading a lot into things that aren't there.

>>118564
Maybe, but its a lot of deliberate things they didn't have to do or show that make it suspect. I won't go really into it since its just starts circular logic and goes nowhere.

>>118545
One more problem with this episode, why does no one try to figure out why Korra can't enter the Avatar state. You'd think this would be the first thing they'd ask Tenzin about since it's a major problem

>>118547
Tenzin said that no one expected Korra to beat Kuvira. This seems odd given that Korra is the Avatar and the last time they spoke was over 6 months ago. So unless Tenzin already knew that Korra couldn't use the Avatar state he should have been more surprised that Korra lost.

>They moved there.

Why? After the 100 year war I can't imagine that fire benders would be popular and water benders would be at a disadvantage if they're not near water.

If they lived near Republic City this would make some sense but they

>Yeah this one is valid but maybe the walls went underground.

Okay then why didn't Bolin dig under the underground wall?

Also why is there a giant metal wall surrounding this area? What's so important that the metalbenders built and maintained a giant metal wall around it?

>This just seems like cherrypicking. Korra just jumped from a moving train with three people at a drop of over 50 feets, I don't think there was anything wrong with them thinking they have a few moments to catch their breath and figure out what they need to do.

Given that they'd just fought metal benders on a metal train who can throw scraps of metal at them and are now currently standing on earth surrounded by rocky cliffs it was foolish to just stand around casually talking instead of coming up with a plan or running away. If the metal benders had been able to stop the train they could have run to where Korra was and attacked her with metal or earth bending.

>>118548

>Why would they assume she got better after showing no progress in her recovery and disappearing for six months?

Tenzin had no way to know whether Korra was still having problems or whether she'd healed, therefore it was odd of him to tell Korra that no one expected her to beat Kuvira. Especially since he sent his children to find Korra because he believed she'd be useful in some way yet didn't mention to them that Korra may be unable to fight.

>Waterbenders were in EK and FN even during ATLA.

The only fire benders were the Fire Nation army and colonists, both which Zuko removed as part of his peace deal with the Earth Kingdom.

Other than Katara the only water benders came from the Foggy Swamp, though there doesn't seem to be any evidence that these water benders came from there.

>That's silly, going through earth it's not the same as swimming, you can't simply make earth disappear.

Bolin could have simply moved the earth out of the way. Alternative he could have turned the earth into lava, created a tunnel, then cooled the lava.

Let's not forget that the tunnel only has to be deep enough for them to crawl under the wall, they don't have to walk under it.

>They would have needed a small dig site and much more time, with the risk of getting busted by a patrol And if the guards noticed as they passed (suspect underground noises or movement) they could've simply sunk Bolin and the others.

Earthbending has been shown to be a quick process, so Bolin would only have needed a few minutes.

>Would also have been boring and pointless to watch.

Your subjective opinion on what is interesting doesn't make the writing any worse.

>He's not a detective anymore, as clearly stated in another episode, do you even watch the show?

Yes I do and as Mako knows the head of police (Lin) he could easily have called her and had her shut the train station down. He could even have done this before getting to the station.

>And even if he was, he had no time and leverage for an immediate lockdown.

Yet there was enough time for the main cast to walk around aimlessly before Korra decided to use her magic powers to search for Wu who just convinently happened to be on the train next to them.

>She fought some mooks and didn't even do anything spectacular (and she still got thrown around a bit), how does this compare with fighting Kuvira?

Korra fought more people and on a train made of metal, so she was at a greater disadvantage yet somehow managed to win. By contrast Kuvira only had a smaller amount of metal yet managed to beat Korra who was using all 4 elements. While Kuvira also had earth she mainly fought with metal and Korra also had access to the earth.

In conclusion the issues I mentioned are all holes.

>>118564
You just described Bunker's whole MO. I'm getting really annoyed with it to be honest. Puts reasonable Korrasami shippers in a bad light.

>>118565
I think you're wearing that tinfoil hat a little too tight around your head.

>>118568
It's not a conspiracy it's just noting similar interactions and what they've lead to. But as said it'll be nothing more than a circular argument to discuss that further.

>>118549

When a writer creates their own definition of something and then claims everyone else is wrong because they don't measure up to this arbitrary definition the writer is almost always wrong.

In any case here's my response to this article:

Author claims that movies only exist to be fun but ignores that as plot holes make movies less fun they are detrimental to the movie. In effect his own argument shows his analysis is wrong.

A sign of good writing is noticing the problems and addressing them, not whining because someone points out the obvious flaw. In Looper the writers should have explained why they can't just drop people into the ocean, not rely on fanboys to defend their lack of effort.

A) Hulk fails to realise that the plot of Dark Knight would have been better if the plot had been based on a series of events which flowed from one to another, rather than whatever the director thought was cool being strung together.

Hulk complains about people using logic after they've seen a movie even though you often can't identify plot holes without having seen the entire movie.

Hulk ignores that plot hole that people notice after a movie has ended make the movie less enjoyable to watch next time. Especially if the entire plot of the movie is deeply flawed.

B) Something can still be a plot hole if it happens offscreen, especially when it would have been impossible for this event to happen.

C) If your audience doesn't like your ending then you've failed as an author. The Sopranos is an example of how not to end a series, not an artsy message. That's why no one is trying to copy it.

E) Failure of the author to do basic research is the author's fault, not that of the audience. If the author wants a character to be a doctor they should be prepared to research medicine so this character won't make basic errors.

F) Hulk blames audience for the slopping work in film studios.

Minority report did have a plot hole and just because the writers were too lazy to fix it doesn't mean that people are wrong to point out this plot hole. The fun of the movie is watching an engaging plot, not disengaging your brain so you can't tell how stupid it is.

Regarding Hulk's plot holes:

A) Given that old Biff changed his past he should have disappeared the same way Marty did, which would have prevented himself from ever being able to give himself the sports almanac. So it seems that you won't be affected by any changes you make to the past if you quickly go back to your own time.

B) When exactly did they say in movies 4 or 5 that Luke needed to be protected from Vader? If Vader isn't looking for Luke then there's no problem.

C) Voldermort wants to kill Harry in front of his Death Eaters so he needs Harry to touch the portkey on a specific day at a specific time. It's also explained in the books that a portkey won't work inside Hogwarts so Voldermort needs something outside Hogwarts to be the portkey. Thus Voldermort needs something he can be sure Harry will touch at a specific time that will be outside Hogwarts. I guess the Triwizard cup was the most convenient thing he could use.


In conclusion just because something is entertaining doesn't excuse that it's plot is poor and that the movies would have been more enjoyable if the plot had been better.

>>118571
>In conclusion just because something is entertaining doesn't excuse that it's plot is poor and that the movies would have been more enjoyable if the plot had been better.
Nothing you have said supports either of these conclusions.

can we all just agree we'd totally get a Korra figure if they released one?

>>118573
Weren't they supposed to this year?

The episodes just don't get worse. Always the same level of quality.

Also, every episode written directly by Mike has to have a bathroom joke.

>>118574
Naga plush this month and Aang Statue Next year. Nick is never good at getting this stuff out in a timely manner.

man it looks like something weird is going down next ep