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No.118385
KORRA BOOK 4: EPISODE 5 DISCUSSION THREAD - ENEMY AT THE GATESAnonymous
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Kuvira has come a-knockin at the gates of Zaofu, and she brought her entire frickin' army! How will Su greet the Great Uniter after her threatening words back in Republic City?

Korra reached a milestone on her road to recovery during her time with Toph in the Great Swamp. She removed the remains of the metallic poison Zaheer afflicted her with and she reconnected with Air Siblings that love her like a big sister. Ikki informed Korra of Kuvira's plans and they're making their way to Zaofu on the back of Pepper. How will the Avatar deal with her first major external conflict in over three years?

Check it out at 12 Noon EST Friday 10/31 on Nick.com (free with ads), the Nick mobile App (free with ads). Amazon Video around 3AM EST. Also Available on Google Play, Xbox Video, and iTunes! $1.99 per episode, $2.99 for HD, Season passes go for $21.99 SD and $29.99 HD.

Oh, and Happy Halloween!
No.118390
Anonymous
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Welp, we found out what Varrick's intending to use the vines for, and it pretty much as expected.

Nice character moments all around, as well as a neat action scene. Good to see that the emotional growth Korra's undergone since Book Three seems to be sticking as well.

Now to want and see people trying to justify Kuvira's actions, now that she's heading rapidly into the terrority previously occupied by the dude in my linked picture.
No.118396
Anonymous
Looks like Kuvira is going to be a generic villain with no real redeeming qualities after all. I also predict that Zhu Li will later return to Varric and Kuvira will somehow use the spirit weapon to be able to fight Korra because without it Korra will beat Kuvira in under a minute.

Also how was Suyin expecting Republic City to get their army to Zaofu when the only way to get there is through the Earth Empire? Was she really expecting the Earth Empire to just let another army march across their land?
No.118398
Bunker !OFOzVPOG0g
Wonder if Asami will continue getting development. Kuvira seems to be on a path Similar to Revan started down the path because nobody else would act and then went too far.. Maybe Korra can bring her back from being to extreme.
No.118403
Anonymous
...

Well.
Kuvira is cool and all?
And props to good ol Zeldie Wills for making every line of hers send chills down my spine?

But...
I don't think she's the least bit engaging as a character compared to the villains from books 1 and 3.
No.118404
Bunker !OFOzVPOG0g
I'm unsure at this juncture. The revelation that Su has raised her since she was a child leads me to believe that her family may have perished in a bandit raid of some sort and that fuels her want to institute the authority she wishes.
No.118405
Anonymous
Man, does Baatar Jr. have to be so card-carryingly evil?
No.118406
Anonymous
Replies:>>118409
That stuff with Asami and her dad teared me up.

That is all.
No.118407
Daniel FUCKING Murphy, Hitting Machine
>>118405

Bataar Jr. strikes me as a butthurt "YEAH TAKE THAT MOM. NEENER." guy with parental issues. He wound up being the biggest world-damaging faggot out of the litter of the Beifong clan. His brother Huan is an Emo metalbending sclutpist with green highlights in his hair and his head up his own ass, and even HE is not a fan of Bataar Jr.
No.118408
Anonymous
Replies:>>118410
>>118405
>>118407
Wonder if this is a result of Suyin's overly open approach to life and her parenting methods? Even if I'm not one of the people who ever thought she was actually evil in the previous season I'd consider myself one of many who thought the narrative was a little biased in letting her off easy versus Lin so it would be an interesting form of karma that avoids being too overhanded.
No.118409
Anonymous
Replies:>>118411
>>118406
She did feel like an accessory through most of Book 3 so I'm glad they found something that could make for an interesting subplot for her and give her a chance to develop.
No.118410
Anonymous
>>118407
>>118408
I have a feeling his attitude might be Kuvira's doing, in that she planted ideas in his mind that he'd never flourish in Zaofu, he was being intentionally held back by his parents, etc.
No.118411
Anonymous
>>118409
I did appreciate how they developed her relationship with Korra at least.
But true, something like this holds much more emotional gravitas. It was kind of a shocker to see Sato all aged in prison.
No.118412
Anonymous
Is nobody gonna say anything about the CGI fight.
No.118413
Anonymous
>>118412

It was surprisingly well done?
No.118414
Bunker !OFOzVPOG0g
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>>118412
Lotta good pneumatic punching and kicking.
No.118415
Anonymous
Replies:>>118417
>>118412
Good coreography, a little weird since there's obviously more frames than in the hand-drawn animation.
No.118417
Bunker !OFOzVPOG0g
>>118415

It worked pretty good , better than some anime mech action. The animators blended them together well. Hope they get a chance to do a similar project in the future.
No.118418
Anonymous
Welp. Kuvira went from being a realistic and solid character to blatantly evil in a matter of.. like, three minutes. That has to be a record.. behind Unalaq wanting to destroy the world and turning into a Power Rangers monster that is.
No.118419
Anonymous
>>118418
You're blind and deaf if you think she's showing anything different from the previous episodes.
No.118420
Anonymous
>>118418
She was having that problem earlier too. Unless they have a plot twist explaining her actions, if they wanted her to be a more convincing villain she should've been shown to at least believe in her actions like Zaheer and even Amon did, rather than being a "I'm aware that everything I'm doing is evil and admitting I'm lying to people like Bolin since all my claims of the higher moral ground are obviously bullshit".
No.118421
Anonymous
>>118418
She's been like this since day one. Episode one? Whatever.
No.118422
Anonymous
>>118412
The CGI could be much better but it was a pretty fun fight.
No.118423
Anonymous
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I don't know, I thought that they showed, via flashback and from what little we saw in the previous season, that she started out with good intentions, but they quickly snowballed when it appeared that no one else was willing to step up and do something.

Could do with a touch more to fill in the gap between "I'm going to get rid of the bandits and make Ba Sing Se a beacon of progress like Zaofu!" to "Anything other than accepting my complete control will get you sent to a prison camp!" though.

Like, I can see someone going down this slope, but we need a touch more to go on than a fiance with issues with his mum and a bunch of rich assholes egging her on. Maybe the aforementioned theory of her parents getting killed by bandits giving her a some kind of complex where, to her, the only way people can be safe is if they do exactly what she says.

Y'know, like the Justice Lords over in the DCAU (not in Injustice though, those guys are psychos).

On a related note... how long until she fixes the "Secret Project" to an airship and decides to do her Ozai impression on those who'd oppose her?
No.118424
Bunker !OFOzVPOG0g
Replies:>>118432
>>118423
I think that will depend on Zhu Li
No.118425
Anonymous
Speaking of which, poor Zhu Li.
</3
No.118426
Anonymous
Replies:>>118427
>>118423
>I don't know, I thought that they showed, via flashback and from what little we saw in the previous season, that she started out with good intentions, but they quickly snowballed when it appeared that no one else was willing to step up and do something.
Yeah this is why I'm so confused at people being like, "ugh of COURSE Kuvira is a shallow one-dimensional villain why did I expect anything different". In the flashback she came off as anything BUT power hungry and I hope they do explore where it all changed for her.
No.118427
Bunker !OFOzVPOG0g
>>118426
I think part of that is that aside from whatever her past is that she ran into some really bad characters around the mid point of her mission and that is when she decided that stabilization wouldn't cut it. Hell epically true seeing they were planning on putting in a puppet government with Wu in charge.

That could be what did it. She was tasked on finding the heir and it turned out to be him. She argued that he was in no way fit to be king and her pleas were ignored in favor of reestablishing the royal line, with some "advising" by the United government.

I do like there is barely any counter to Kuvira's argument other than she might be a bit extreme. She's feeling a lot like Megatronus where the core argument was right but his want for power blinded him to a peaceful end. Lets hope Korra can help her see a path to peace and this conflict doesn't wage on for millennia.
No.118428
Anonymous
Replies:>>118430
>>118425
Yeah, to hell with Kuvira advancing army and Asami's parental issues. The was Zhu Li's episode.
From the ship-tease moment, to her mech-suit battle, to her having "the thing" done to Varric.
No.118429
Anonymous
The power armor battle was great. Lots of VOTOMs influences in that fight.
No.118430
Anonymous
Replies:>>118435
>>118428
Yeah...
Varrick, ya DOUCHE.

>>118412
Eh. Better than what some anime's done with it.
No.118431
Bunker !OFOzVPOG0g
>>118429
Kicking and punching and stuff, though when going up against a trained Bender shit got hard for them. Some still bitch that they've got Mechs yet still no firearms. I think it makes combat more interesting than them shooting that each other for most of a fight.
No.118432
Anonymous
Replies:>>118433
>>118424
>>118425
Zhu Li is still loyal to Varrick and is doing this to help him. I stake my balls on it.
No.118433
Anonymous
>>118432
Oh yeah totally.
No.118434
Daniel FUCKING Murphy, Hitting Machine
>>118429

Neat tidbit, that battle was storyboarded by Will Ruzicka whose tumblr profile proclaims:

>I like drawing Women in Glasses, Nudity, Robots, Fighting, and any combination of those things together.

He was offered the chance to board 3 out of 4 of them. Not bad if you ask me.

Kidding aside, that was a great scene. The end product was friggin' awesome.
No.118435
Anonymous
>>118430
A decent number of Sunrise series could really learn from it.
No.118436
Anonymous
Replies:>>118437
What language is Kuvira's name supposed to be anyway?
No.118437
Anonymous
>>118436
Apparently Hindi, means "courageous woman".
No.118438
Anonymous
Replies:>>118440
Why do I want an "excuse me, princess" joke so much

so much
No.118440
Bunker !OFOzVPOG0g
Replies:>>118441
>>118438
I can see Mako doing that with Wu.
No.118441
Anonymous
Replies:>>118442
>>118440
Ten bucks says its Varrik to Kuvira.
No.118442
Anonymous
>>118441
I'd say it's way too obscure.

Never gonna happen.
No.118443
Bunker !OFOzVPOG0g
http://www.nick.com/videos/clip/legend-of-korra-219-clip-464891165164.html

Its a trap
No.118445
Anonymous
Replies:>>118446
A lot of people seem to be viewing Su Lin negatively for refusing to help stabilise the Earth Kingdom and instead remaining safe in her city, then complaining when the new Earth Empire tries to invade her city. The argument seems to be that it was her own fault for not trying to gain influence in the new Earth Kingdom, which was intent on recapturing everywhere in the Earth Kingdom.

I felt that Su's claim that she didn't want to be a conqueror wasn't that valid given that she could have turned the Earth Kingdom over to the Earth King when she was done.
No.118446
Anonymous
Replies:>>118447
>>118445
I think it's actually pretty fair to call Su selfish in this case, tbh.
Since we first met her in S3, she was a person completely stuck up her own ass and disconnected from the rest of the world in almost every sense. All she cared about was her city and her immediate family; it wasn't until Opal was in direct danger that she acted in some way.

She bitched and moaned about the Earth Queen and the unnecessity of monarchies, then as soon as the Earth Queen is gone and she has a real chance to prove her point, she once again does nothing. Even after Raiko, Tenzin and Kuvira herself plead with her to do something.
Su is like one of those hypocrite rich elites who love to talk fireside politics but never lift a finger to do anything.

I dunno, her character's never really settled all too well with me and I'm glad she and her two hunky sons are getting captured next episode.
No.118447
Anonymous
Replies:>>118448
>>118446

To be fair she did actually have a point regarding how anyone who sets out to enforce order from outside each individual province would just come off as being a conquerer or invader... Like, She had the right idea to a degree, the problem is that Kuvira had a point too, in that order HAD to be brought back in some manner.

I think that Su was just assuming it would sort itself out, with each state eventually stablising on their own... even though that's being more than a smidge overly optimistic. Not all the states in the former Earth Kingdom had the resources to rebuild themselves into seperate city states like Zaofu, so help from the outside was the ONLY option in a lot of cases...

So yeah, both Kuvira and Su had part of the right idea, but the situation was so complicated that neither is entirely right either.
No.118448
Bunker !OFOzVPOG0g
Replies:>>118449
>>118447
Hence Korra having to be brought back into the fray to sort out the mess and get some kinda balance going. I think Kuvira will survive and some kinda peace will be worked out. Also hope United Government gets an earful for thinking a puppet king and international advisers was a good idea.
No.118449
Anonymous
>>118448
Yeah, cos I mean, so far the lesson's been "Your antagonists haven't been ONE HUNDRED Percent wrong" maybe this'll finally drive that point home?
No.118450
Anonymous
I just realized something.
How many western animated programmes are there with a 90% adult cast?

And why do I get the feeling that's one of the many factors Nickelodeon/Advertisers downgraded it to digital-only?
No.118451
Anonymous
>>118450
Any of the DC or Marvel animated adaptations for one.
No.118452
Anonymous
>>118451
Oh.

Right.
But I can assume an animated drama starring some 21 year olds that hasn't had a shit ton of comic and toy lines for decades can certainly not have the same impact for advertisers as much as a bunch of characters on an action show that does.

I keep thinking how it was the lack of advertisers that made them put it up online.
They obviously knew it wasn't gonna attract their core demo and their Nick advertisers weren't gonna be going for that (and I'm sure it didn't have the lowest numbers on their network) so they weren't gonna take the hit money-wise.

I dunno. Does the show benefit from being Digital-Only?
No.118453
Anonymous
Replies:>>118454
>>118450
>>118451
>>118452
However, I believe that either Bryke or some other producer did say that Nickelodeon at one point had a rule that shows with human casts had to have the lead/viewpoint character be children themselves.

The unwritten rule for children's programming is that the cast should be a few years older than the target audience. So shows aimed at preteens should have teenage leads, shows aimed at eight year olds should have preteen leads, etc.
No.118454
Anonymous
>>118453
Huh.
Well maybe that's why they were trying to give the Airbender kids some focus.

That felt weird to concentrate on given that its after 3 seasons of people in their late teens and political-ish drama.
No.118455
Bunker !OFOzVPOG0g
Replies:>>118458
>>118452
Show does well on digital, always has. In part because those older demographics don't like being chained to a television schedule and prefer on demand entertainment.
No.118456
Anonymous
Replies:>>118457
So.

Any idea what's gonna happen next ep?
No.118457
Anonymous
>>118456
Su and Sons attempt to take out Kuvira and fail and end up captured. I think Bataar Sr will then concede to Kuvira and join the Earth Empire in order to save Su and his sons. Korra will head back to Republic City near the end to find out what the hell is going on on their end and Bolin will escape and be on the run for a couple of episodes.
No.118458
Anonymous
Replies:>>118459
>>118455
I've seen that claim a lot about Korra but is there any numerical proof to substantiate that?
No.118459
Anonymous
>>118458
>>118149
Too lazy to look for the links but I remember good sales from google and amazon too.
No.118460
Bunker !OFOzVPOG0g
>>118459
Yea Shows always been a solid full season purchase.
No.118461
Anonymous
Replies:>>118462
>>118459
Huh. Wonder if its enough to rival its TV income.
No.118462
Bunker !OFOzVPOG0g
Replies:>>118463
>>118461
Book 1 made Bank as soon at it was up on Itunes and Book 2 even with its split reception was no slouch in sales. So its got the ability to make a solid profit. Just advertisers and those that want the channel itself to thrive bitch about the lack of profit to them.

But now they've been going digital with '12 Turtles too now so maybe whomever was having it out during the Book 3 run with this erratic flipping from Digital and Cable to Cable only back to only Digital. Finally got a shot at doing what they've been attempting to do for years and that is get part of the older demographics that have been going with digital services last few years.

While maybe no more Avatar for a few years while they chill with other projects maybe we can get some action shows on a Digital Service.
No.118463
Anonymous
Replies:>>118464
>>118462
>But now they've been going digital with '12 Turtles too
What, do they WANT their channel to be nothing but teen sitcoms and spongebob??
No.118464
Bunker !OFOzVPOG0g
>>118463
If they can make a profit without showing the show and just selling toys they will. Its on the Friday 8:00 Slot now are a premier. Though for some reason it went into Hiatus with like three more Horror episodes left to air. Their schedule is just as bad as Korra's.