/a/ - Avatar

Well that was fun. Things are progressing along expected lines, but the various plots are moving in interesting ways.

Wonder if Wu will better himself.

Probably the most dialogue heavy, political and mature episode of the series. It was great.
My only problem with it they didn't address spirit korra. I guess it's implied Korra is projecting it to run away from her responsibility, but she seems to forget it all together.

>>118252
I know what you mean.

>>118253
Likely hanging about the edge of where Korra is now and not talking about it with Toph because she cannot "see" it as far as Korra knows.

>>118255
Spirit energy as fuel source?
Spriit enhanced nutritious vegetable?
Spiritually spliced super soldiers?
Spirit bomb?

Whatever it is, i hope the spirits get pissed and take action.

>>118256
My guess? Turning the vine into some kind of rapid growing biological weapon, like they chunk bombs filled with it at cities they want to conquer, wait for them to be overcome with shrubbery, and then clear it away after their enemies surrender.

>>118255
Hot dog tree

>>118256
That doesn't look spiritual at all unless it's a vine from Republic City.

I know that the Earth Kingdom is pretty damn diverse, but it's pretty amusing to me how the Earth monarchs go from looking like extremely archetypically Chinese to a very South Asian looking person in the span of two generations. Makes for interesting fanfic fuel in the form of the Earth Queen's sibling/nibling-in-law or maybe even her mother being an aristocrat from a farther-off part of the Earth kingdom who was wedded for diplomatic or political purposes.

On a side note Wu looks and acts like the spitting image of a guy from Nepal I work with IRL.

>>118262
Yea likely it was a member of King Bumi's court or similar in order or insure a peace at some point in history. And Wu is the last living descendant of the closest line.

>>118255
A weapon to surpass the avatar.

>>118252
Book 2 and 3 were not bad at all.
Stay mad.

>>118255
A bomb to nuke the Fire Nation?

>>118274
I think he's talking about feet shots.

I kind of feel disappointed by Toph in this episode. I was looking forward to seeing how Toph had changed in her old age, and the answer is she hasn't. Or, to be more accurate, she changed back from any maturity she gained in adulthood to being just like she was when she was a kid. She even has her old cloths and hairstyle, just to hammer in how little her characterization differs from the first series. I was looking forward to seeing a wiser, more serious side to Toph that had been hinted at in the multiple flashbacks we've already seen in the series featuring her in her adult years.

Also I didn't like her voice. It sounded like a young woman doing a bad impression of an old woman. Just bring your voice down a bit and make it a bit raspier. You don't have to talk like your entire torso is in a vice.

Also she's short again. Because old women are always short, you know.

>>118278
Katara's not really short.

>>118278

>Or, to be more accurate, she changed back from any maturity she gained in adulthood to being just like she was when she was a kid. She even has her old cloths and hairstyle, just to hammer in how little her characterization differs from the first series.

This is the same woman who sacrificed her career to protect her two daughters. She retired and went on a spiritual journey and found a spot to dwell in the Swamp. A spot where she could apparently see EVERYTHING but she didn't move a muscle to help. Toph pulls her own weight and only hers.

She even told Korra, "different names, same street". Toph's attire and attitude were a direct callback to Bitter Work.

Toph kicked Korra's ass and Korra kept coming back like a happy puppy every time up until Toph tried to remove the remnants of the poison. That's where the mental blocks kept the poison in. This is where the mental health angle surged forth. Korra has to *choose* to heal herself to make her the Avatar she was again. It's a very taxing choice to make but if Toph were to use her hax powers to make Korra fully healthy again, Korra's journey would be a huge waste of time. A Depressed person must make the really hard choice to get out of their situation and seek help (which Korra did, via Korra Alone), and even then their healing is totally up to themselves.

Second paragraph I have no real rebuttal to aside from I liked her VA. Agree to disagree etc.

Last paragraph, Osteoporosis is a bitch. Elderly people with this condition tend to endure a shrinking skeletal structure. And even then, Toph started out a pint-sized powerhouse, and here we are with old cranky Toph tossing the Avatar around the Swamp like nothing while still a small old lady while rejecting her affectionate hugs. "Go hug a tree." I see nothing wrong with this. Toph kicks ass eternal.

>>118278

I think part of that is just her core personality unencumbered by the weights of work and such. Same with Aang as the food vendor showed with the picture.

Both have a core personality that makes them who they are outside of titles and responsibilities. Korra doesn't have that save what she had prior to age four.

After that her core was Avatar and so that gone she's got very little core self to fall back on so she struggles and grasps to put something together.

I felt this episode was forced drama upon forced drama.

Despite Ba Sing Se being a huge city and the Earth Kingdom being united for some reason they can't afford to send anything beyond a broach. You'd think they'd at least be able make a new crown.

Kuvira goes to Republic City with a small part of her army, declares herself ruler of the Earth Kingdom, and is able to leave even though Republic City most likely has more troops present and all those royal guests probably brought their own security.

What was Kuvira planning to do with Wu? If the other nations support his claim to the throne they could invade and put him on the throne. Leaving him alive was idiotic. If killing isn't allowed then she should have at least offered him good living condition for the rest of his life so he would be less likely to oppose her coup.

Kuvira is being built up as a villain, despite uniting the Earth Kingdom, because she didn't do it the approved way and because the other nations want someone else to rule because of who he's related to rather than because he has any skills.

While I do appreciate that the writers at least pointed out that Wu isn't a good candidate because he hasn't done anything to help the Earth Kingdom I get the feeling that they're going to ignore this. So don't expect Wu to do anything that might give him the skills to be a good ruler.

Since the human body is full of metal (iron in blood, calcium in bones) it seems odd that Toph is able to tell that Korra has extra metal in her body.

Finally why Korra didn't want the metal removed made little sense. If she doesn't want the metal removed because she doesn't want to be the Avatar because she doesn't want to get hurt then drugging her before removing the metal will fix all of these problems because she won't be able to resist it. Also Korra seemed fine with being hurt when she was fighting Toph, so this part of the analysis makes no sense.

>>118282

Short reply, you watch the show with your butt. Long reply will come later when I'm in front of my computer.

I'm wondering if anyone else caught a kind of important detail that was dropped in this episode. During the coronation we're finally given a name for the Earth Kingdom Royals. They belong to the Hu Ting dynasty. Did anyone else notice that? That was kind of cool.

>>118279
She definitely lost a few inches in her old age. I realized as I was typing that post up that old women in Avatar are significantly shorter than old men. Contrast:

Toph, Katara, Lo and Li, Hama, Sokka and Katara's grandmother, Mako and Bolin's grandmother

Zuko, Pabu, Bumi (when he isn't slouching), Sozin, Roku

There are outliers on either side (Iroh, the Fortuneteller), but the overall pattern seems to be that women get significantly shorter with age than men with age. Not saying it's a huge issue or anything, just a slightly bothersome trend I just noticed.

>>118281
But that's not how maturity works. You don't put on your grown-up pants when you have responsibility in your life and then revert back to your childhood self when those responsibilities are gone. I can accept that Aang would still find occasional moments to have fun as an adult, but after a lifetime of heavy responsibility raising a family, building a city, running a city, and keeping the world safe, I would expect him to have mellowed out quite a bit. I'd expect the same of Toph after working as chief of police for over two decades, having and raising two daughters, and traveling the world for years.

>>118288
Might be she's just giving Korra shit because she feels that is what Korra needs right now to reignite her spark. She needs that push to get her out of that depression.

>>118288
What about the current Fire Lord? She seems to be of the same age group as Bumi, and stands just about as firmly.

>>118282

>I felt this episode was forced drama upon forced drama.

>forced
The show doesn't write itself. You have to set up the dominoes in order to knock em down. And that's what this episode went about doing.

>Despite Ba Sing Se being a huge city and the Earth Kingdom being united for some reason they can't afford to send anything beyond a broach. You'd think they'd at least be able make a new crown.

The palace was looted of all of its major royal jewels and trinkets 3 years ago and is still in disarray. This was directly mentioned by the ministers.

>Kuvira goes to Republic City with a small part of her army, declares herself ruler of the Earth Kingdom, and is able to leave even though Republic City most likely has more troops present and all those royal guests probably brought their own security.

So you want Raiko and Zuko's daughter to spark an international incident unprovoked? You dumdum.

>What was Kuvira planning to do with Wu? If the other nations support his claim to the throne they could invade and put him on the throne. Leaving him alive was idiotic. If killing isn't allowed then she should have at least offered him good living condition for the rest of his life so he would be less likely to oppose her coup.

If Kuvira killed Wu she would make him a martyr and reignite the chaos that Zaheer unleashed after he killed the Earth Queen.

>Kuvira is being built up as a villain, despite uniting the Earth Kingdom, because she didn't do it the approved way and because the other nations want someone else to rule because of who he's related to rather than because he has any skills.

Wu was going to be a figurehead with internationally approved advisers. A useful idiot like the Earth King from ATLA but with no Long Feng pulling the strings under him. As Kuvira's campaign unfolded she became the Devil You Know people were okay with rather than be at mercy of pillaging bandits. We don't know if Kuvira's pursuit started out noble but her thirst for control corrupted her. We're likely going to see a flashback of her split with Su to explain this.

>While I do appreciate that the writers at least pointed out that Wu isn't a good candidate because he hasn't done anything to help the Earth Kingdom I get the feeling that they're going to ignore this. So don't expect Wu to do anything that might give him the skills to be a good ruler.

Jumping to conclusions. Going off of Book 3's execution I don't see this happening.

>Since the human body is full of metal (iron in blood, calcium in bones) it seems odd that Toph is able to tell that Korra has extra metal in her body.

This is not a canon earthbending power going back to ATLA. Toph can't bend people.

>Finally why Korra didn't want the metal removed made little sense. If she doesn't want the metal removed because she doesn't want to be the Avatar because she doesn't want to get hurt then drugging her before removing the metal will fix all of these problems because she won't be able to resist it. Also Korra seemed fine with being hurt when she was fighting Toph, so this part of the analysis makes no sense.

This was the show referring to Depression using the metal inside Korra as a metaphor. Korra has to be the one to fix Korra, I'll refer you to a post by someone who fought their depression and really dug the way the show has been going about Korra's fight with it http://paintedladyspirit.tumblr.com/post/100341135241/i-cannot-begin-to-express-how-appreciative-i-am-of

Is it me or did some of the faces look a little weird this episode? It wasn't necessarily bad and Korra looked cute but either the animation was stiffer or the art style looked somewhat off model. That Tumblr link with Korra's extra simplified nose when she's looking at Toph is a good example.

I absolutely loved the explanation for Korra's situation, and Toph's reaction to it. Toph is truly the uncle Iroh of Earthbending.

One thing that I think the mixed reaction to Kuvira (some people considering her flawed and morally grey, some people considering her an absolute bad guy) highlights for me is how the seasonally episodic format of this series as a whole and the timeskip between books 3 and 4 in particular have hurt the development of antagonists in this series as opposed to ATLA.

The big problem with Kuvira as a character is that we're only seeing her at the end of her character arc. Think about it, we saw glimpses of her in book 3 and she was nothing like she is now, her appearance and mannerisms were softer and friendlier and she was trusted enough by Suyin to be both a captain of her guard and one of her dancers. Clearly something happened between books 3 and 4 and it's pretty obvious what that something is, spending the last three years pacifying and bringing order to what was essentially a continent-sized Somalia took its toll on her psyche and her values. I have no doubt that she started out with all of the best of intentions and integrity to spare, but she has been through so much shit that it's gotten to her in a big way, such that now she has not only convinced herself that she is the only person who can properly rule the Earth Kingdom/Empire but she now buys into her reputation and revels in the role to the point where she has to seize power in the most overt and confrontational manner possible.

But the big problem is we never saw any of that, because the show is about Korra and we simply don't have the time to focus much on worldbuilding or the development of secondary characters we never get any juicy development of the show's villains, just vague subtext and hints.

I love this show, but I just think it would be so much better if we had more time.

>>118297
It's unlikely at this point but I'm hoping Kuvira will only end up being a secondary antagonist and her primary function will be as more of a foil to Korra. Korra's internal struggle is a lot more interesting IMO and would provide impetus for a better plot and Kuvira's villainy and doing stuff like meddling with the spirit world could end up as a trigger for the real conflict.

>>118290
I meant King Bumi. The earthbender one.

>>118297
The show being about Korra isn't a detriment. The big problem is that it continues to carry the three characters that showed up in Book 1 (Mako, Bolin, and Asami) along for the ride for no real reason. Mako's detective skills (using the one brain cell he has) could have been taken up by Lin (a detective as she claims herself to be in Book 3). Bolin's comedy could have shown up as slapstick or emerged from the cast like how comedy came from Toph, Katara, Sokka, Aang, Zuko (unintentionally), Iroh, and the rest. In AtLA it wasn't just Sokka's job to tell a high-larious jest, anyone could drop a joke. And Asami's place could have been taken up by Naga or some bison or another character.
Heck even have Kuvira join up in Book 3. They can go to Zaofu first and get Opal and do that whole Beifong buffet. Then Kuvira leaves her post to see the world or protect Opal at Suyin's request (it shouldn't fall to Lin since Lin is watching Korra who is watching the WORLD or something to that effect). That way we get our villain for Book 4 be someone that was close to the group and had a purpose and connection.

Just get rid of M.B.A.

>>118307
>Bolin's comedy could have shown up as slapstick or emerged from the cast like how comedy came from Toph, Katara, Sokka, Aang, Zuko (unintentionally), Iroh, and the rest. In AtLA it wasn't just Sokka's job to tell a high-larious jest, anyone could drop a joke.

I was enjoying Book 3 so much. But then I got slapped back into the reality of what this show was when Zaheer got captured and Bolin interrupted him by shoving a sock in his mouth.. then saying a cringe-worthy pun.
Nothing kills a dramatic moment or meaningful tension quite like having to make the kiddies in the room laugh at every moment.

>>118308
>Nothing kills a dramatic moment or meaningful tension quite like having to make the kiddies in the room laugh at every moment.
Adventure stories aren't Thrillers. Breaking up the tension is exactly what moments like those are supposed to do. You want the tension to rise and also fall. A straight upward slope creates an entirely different sort of story--one that's a lot more stressful to watch, even for adults. And also one that has less lasting appeal.

>>118309
>A straight upward slope creates an entirely different sort of story--one that's a lot more stressful to watch
Or, you know, something tonally sane. There's a place for comedy and drama. There's no rule saying the two shall never meet, but it has to be done right and tastefully. They haven't been doing it right lately. Like at all. And it goes back to this >>118307 person's point about characters being reduced to one-dimensional caricatures.
Also if a cartoon for kids stresses you out as an adult, perhaps you shouldn't even be watching it.

>>118310
>>118311
These aren't even close to being comparable; just stop it.
Stuff like Zuko vs. Azula was so effective because it didn't end with Zuko cracking a pun about her being "washed up" at the end of the scene.

>>118319
>Or, you know, something tonally sane. There's a place for comedy and drama. There's no rule saying the two shall never meet, but it has to be done right and tastefully. They haven't been doing it right lately. Like at all. And it goes back to this >118307 person's point about characters being reduced to one-dimensional caricatures.
Also if a cartoon for kids stresses you out as an adult, perhaps you shouldn't even be watching it.

Then that's the argument he should've made, not "Nothing kills the dramatic tension like making kids laugh." Criticizing the quality of the humor is a different from criticizing the very existence of it in the first place. The former is a conversation worth having, while the latter reflects a shallow understanding of storytelling.

>>118284
Short reply you don't like what I'm saying but can't rebut it in any way.

>>118293
>The show doesn't write itself. You have to set up the dominoes in order to knock em down. And that's what this episode went about doing.

Yes and the show did this in a hamfisted way.

>The palace was looted of all of its major royal jewels and trinkets 3 years ago and is still in disarray. This was directly mentioned by the ministers.

Unless Ba Sing Se's government has literally no money they should still be able to buy a new crown for the person they want to rule an entire nation.

>So you want Raiko and Zuko's daughter to spark an international incident unprovoked? You dumdum.

You do realise that Kuvira's coup has already sparked an international incident.

Regarding Republic City and the Fire Nation their choices are:
1) Immediately stop Kuvira with the Republic City army and restore Wu to the thorne.
2) Let Kuvira leave, then try to overthrow her and put Wu on the throne.
3) Accept Kuvira as the Earth Empress.

If the story has them pick option 2 then it shows that Bryke have no idea how to tell a story as this is the worst of all the 3 options because it involves an unnecessary war.

>If Kuvira killed Wu she would make him a martyr and reignite the chaos that Zaheer unleashed after he killed the Earth Queen.

If Kuvira's Earth Empire is so unstable that it will collapse if a person who's been Earth Kingdom for 2 minutes dies then Kuvira's entire military campaign has been a failure.

>We don't know if Kuvira's pursuit started out noble but her thirst for control corrupted her.

Even if she started out with noble goals it doesn't change the fact that she's being portrayed as the villain, while Wu is being shown as the rightful ruler.

>Going off of Book 3's execution I don't see this happening.

Care to elaborate what character development there was in books 1-3? If there was none then don't expect there to be any in book 4.

>This is not a canon earthbending power going back to ATLA. Toph can't bend people.

What are you talking about? Anything in ATLA and LoK is cannon because it's made by Bryke.

Toph said that Korra's problem was that Korra had too much metal in her body. I'm saying that give how much metal is in the human body this would be very difficult to determine.

>Korra has to be the one to fix Korra

Why? Why not remove the metal first by drugging Korra. You'd think the characters would want to remove this metal first, especially since a toxic metal might be the main cause of Korra's problems.

>I'll refer you to a post by someone who fought their depression and really dug the way the show has been going about Korra's fight with it http://paintedladyspirit.tumblr.com/post/100341135241/i-cannot-begin-to-express-how-appreciative-i-am-of

Korra is acting in the complete opposite way this guy acted. This guy didn't want to get out of bed, Korra willingly travelled hundreds of miles looking for a cure. I'm guessing Bryke is trying to give Korra PTSD but decided to add metal fragments as well so they'd have an excuse to make Korra less powerful.

In any case I doubt that this depression or PTSD will be resolved using any of the actual treatments for these conditions.

>>118322
>I'm saying that give how much metal is in the human body this would be very difficult to determine.
That is an absolutely absurd statement to make. It's like saying "given how much blood there is in the human body, it would be very difficult to tell if someone had the wrong amount of blood in their body," or "given how much metal there is in the earth, it would be very difficult to tell if one area has richer seams of useful minerals than another" or "given how much air there is in the sky, it would be very difficult to tell when you're walking through air that stinks."

Ah, it just wouldn't be Avatar fandom without pointless and meaningless bitching. Thanks for completing the experience, anon.

>>118324
>That is an absolutely absurd statement to make.

No it's a sensible statement which shows just how badly written the episode is. The human body is full of different types of metal so simply because someone has more metal than normal wouldn't automatically mean that this extra metal was harmful or even that the extra metal was the same metal Korra was poisoned with.

Let's not forget that despite being full of this metal Korra was still able to enter the Avatar state, so being unable to enter the Avatar state due to trace amount of this metal being in her makes no sense.

>It's like saying "given how much blood there is in the human body, it would be very difficult to tell if someone had the wrong amount of blood in their body,"

You can easily test for this by checking someone's blood pressure.

>"given how much metal there is in the earth, it would be very difficult to tell if one area has richer seams of useful minerals than another"

That is difficult because you won't be able to determine this without mining. Especially if the rocks are so dense that you can't scan the area.

>"given how much air there is in the sky, it would be very difficult to tell when you're walking through air that stinks."

The ratio of stinky air to non-stinky will determine whether you'll be able to notice the stink. Compared to dogs and bears human have a very poor sense of smell.

In conclusion learn some science.

>>118325

Since when has pointing out plot holes and idiotic decisions been considered pointless.

>>118325
This is also the only fandom where I notice you can't criticize anything, because every opinion which even comes close to a critique is taken as an ultimate sacrilegious offense -- and depending on the site, you can even get banned for it. If you're not constantly kissing ass, you're not welcome.

Newsflash: Your show is not perfect and is littered with problems. I praise it where credit is due, but I'm also going to call it out on its bullshit.

It's the 3rd episode and there's already nonsensical anal retentive complaining with no basis in universe canon? Looks like the bandwagoners that left during Book 2 are finally back. You assholes didn't deserve Book 3. Stay mad and stay rekt.

>>118332
>Newsflash: Your show is not perfect and is littered with problems. I praise it where credit is due, but I'm also going to call it out on its bullshit.
Newsflash: Bitching about the show has made up 75% of the conversation about the series since Book 2 of ATLA. You are not a brave soldier fighting against an unreasonable mass of people who think the show is perfect, and you are not being jumped on for daring to have issues with the show: you are part of a hugely vocal minority that WILL NOT SHUT UP about how much you hate the show and yet continue to watch just to bother those of us who DO like it with your incessant vitriol.

Especially because much of what you think of as "meaningful criticism" is just "the show didn't go the way my unpublished fanfiction would have gone!"

>>118328

It isn't when you aren't either blowing problems up hugely out of proportion or creating them out of whole cloth.

>>118333
>>118335
Okay, you're right. Nothing is flawed and everything's perfect. Korra is the single best thing to happen since vaccination. The writers' balls taste like filet mignon. All naysayers are just "bitching" because they have nothing better to do and have no taste for the classic arts.

never change you fucking children

>>118337
>never change you fucking children
Said the guy who just had a temper tantrum where he dramatically and disingenuously pretended to concede to a point that the people on the other side weren't making.

At minimum, in regards to the metal being inside Korra's body thing, Toph *did* claim she's connected to the world and can see things far away, she probably just "saw" what happened and simply knows about it. Alternatively, that metal, unlike calcium iron, and the like that you'd actually find inside a human body, isn't supposed to be there, it's literally a poison/neurotoxin. If bending is all about being in harmony, body and spirit, we can just make the assumption that if you're poisoned by metal, and you're either a powerful metalbender or in the presence of one, you can tell.

Even then, while the body is indeed filled with metal, it's not like it's ore or similar in composition to the minerals you'd find in nature. The iron in your blood isn't just floating around, it's tied up in one of the various protein structures that you'd find in Hemoglobin. Bone isn't just bone, it's also connective tissues like collagen and other non-metallic substances.

Given that it's apparently difficult and rare to do something like Bloodbending, bending a substance that is almost entirely water versus bone or other tissues, we can't assume it's easy to bend the natural metals and minerals in a person when it's so much less to work with and would be subject to the same restrictions as Bloodbending.

Yes, I'm already aware the point of Metalbending is going for small impurities in metal, but those impurities would be in far higher quantity, and in many cases, present by design.

(That said, I think Book 1 screwed up when they said the Mechatanks were platinum. Platinum is hella expensive and rare, I would have said it was pure aluminum or something, and that it's so pure that there's too few impurities to bend it. They're at the technological age where smelting it would be much easier now that they have industrial electricity.)

As for not stopping Kuvira right away, she does have a lot of popular support in Republic City. People hate the shit out of Wu and people regard Kuvira as enough of a hero to:

A) Cheer when she declares herself ruler during the coronation of a new Earth King and-

B) Sell what are basically Che shirts of her in the streets. Of Republic City. An entirely different country. In an age before television, or instant communication.

If, say, Zuko just stood up and immediately lightning-zapped her to death, it could pretty easily spark riots. Don't forget, her army is literally everywhere in the Earth Kingdom, she's the de-facto leader right now on top of everything else.

This anon said the show is imperfect. That's fine, because it's true. "Littered with problems," though? Especially when specifically talking about Seasons 3 and 4? I just plain disagree. Personally, it didn't take any mental gymnastics for me to accept or rationalize things in the story either with my own thought process or with previously established canon.

Also, yeah, it's the third fucking episode. Maybe they address some of the specific points like what to do about Kuvira or why they didn't just immediately attack? They don't? I don't find it to be a big deal.

>>118339
I like the complexity that she got to her position possibly on the tails of saving the life of he SWT Chief. I'd not be too surprised to see a flashback where she was fine doing this to reunite the kingdom to start but ran into Corrupt Governors that had been isolated and abusive to their people.

At this point she strikes me like Revan from KOTOR. Someone who went down their path because they wanted to protect and felt the given response was insufficient.

I liked that Mako was stumped in defending Wu, because other than he's the old system there isn't any reason for him to be there. And actually he's worse because he'd clearly just be a puppet to the International Community right now.

Knowing some political history I'm finding this very interesting. I wish more shows went this far.

>>118327

>Unless Ba Sing Se's government has literally no money they should still be able to buy a new crown for the person they want to rule an entire nation.
I shouldn't even reply since this is clearly nitpicking, but the show addressed this. They needed traditional jewelry for the coronation, buying or forging a new crown wouldn't be the same thing, so they opted for the only jewel left, an earring.

>>118341
Its the same thing as what goes on in other monarchies. They need to give him some mark of legitimacy and since he's not direct bloodline then something connected to it will have to do. Though as we've seen nobody seems to really care since they all know he's a Puppet.