The Good, the Bad, the Weird.
Also I was wondering if all the Gaang Jr stuff was on the wiki. I could have sworn there was more, at least it feels like there's some things missing.
For reference: http://gaangjr.wikia.com/
I also miss you Gaang Jr that is, GJr beyond smut-related conversations with TDL that are unshareable ;_;
Gaang Jr was so awesome...
Man just browsing images of the series due to nostalgia and it was apparently enough of a thing to make someone unaffiliated with it super butthurt, for shipping related reasons.
>>I hope they die in a fiery fire. Them AND their stupid Sokka/Suki pushing ways
Fanatical Tokka shipper or something? Honestly I remember a fair few individuals of that persuasion being this Zutara-tier when it came to Suki.
There's a Sokka/Suki blog on tumblr called fanandboomerang. The lady that runs it gets constant death and suicide threats from Tokkans for liking Sukka/posting Sukka stuff to the Sokka tag. Tokkans can be just as deranged and vile as Zutarians.
Pfffft I remember that image. I think the reaction was to put out more stuff, however briefly.
There's some rar archives posted on the last thread we had http://plus4chan.org/b/a/res/94947.html
I wish there was more Gaang Jr. stuff. Shame I discovered it so late!
From what has been said in recent interviews from last week and today, things are going to be open ended for LoK. Should keep fiction going for a bit if that remains true.
A little "what if" fanfic about if Zutara happened for political reasons.
Also, can we have like a general Avatarverse thread for cosplay, fanfics and assorted other post-series things?
/co/ is having a love/hate moment with Korra and thinking of ideas for another series again.
It's a hate moment though.
The ideas are mostly how to fix it, have it make sense, or going forward how best to ignore what happened to an extent.
Its like without Korra being around they don't know now to handle the hate they worked up within themselves over nothing.
I still don't get the hate. Not super great show but better than most, same as Airbender not great just pretty good. Are they just buttmad that none of their fan canon was actually canon?
It had what it needed to be a super great show just like AtLA, but it was squandered.
It doesn't help that other super great shows were cancelled along the way and LoK survived.
This screams of troll-bait, but I'm wondering what specifically was squandered and what shows got cancelled unfairly, in your eyes.
Korra was near the top of the video streaming and purchasing services like iTunes and Amazon, no matter your opinions on it, it was a successful show.
Not that anon, but I also feel Korra had a considerable amount of wasted potential. Do you remember how the Equalists could have been sympathetic villains? Or the stupidity that was most of Book 2 Spirits? How about Asami's characterization, growth and lack therein? Unless Asami became a legit character in Book 4, I kinda stopped watching Book 4 Balance after episode 4. If only I could remember my long detailed diatribe on why Korra, specifically Book 1 and 2, are bad and should feel bad. But it's probably for the best. I'd also like to sate that I really liked Korra Book 3 Change.
For canceled shows, I'm betting anon is thinking of Young Justice, Green Lantern and/or Tron Uprising. Albeit, all of those series were not on Nicklodeon. And a successful show isn't necessarily a good show.
Writing that all down makes me actually go back and finish Book 4.
I can see that. I think we needed more time with the Equalists, at least maybe an episode or two. I don't mean, like, have the show go full Bending-Privilege on us but at least a human face/backstory besides Hiroshi.
Unalaq...not much to help him, he was just about as cookie cutter simple as possible. I personally liked Book 4, but as much as I like Kuvira she also suffers a bit from a lack of screen time/down time shown. I think you should finish it if only just to have a fully informed opinion of the show overall, but I liked it so possible bias.
As for the other shows, other factors got those shows cancelled. I'm not sure if even the anon who made the point was blaming LoK or even tying it to anything, they might have just been grumbling about shows they liked more getting the axe.
I still feel Korra did well at showing a "god" or at least a person looked up to as such dealing with finding their own humanity and trying to succeed. I find Korra rather nice in that her victories were never easy, change if pace from other shows where the hero always wins at the end of a season. It didn't do all it could in part having it'd first season slashed while in development. I still like Korra since she was always trying to find herself. I'd have liked Asami to be more forthcoming, but that would have been impossible given the nature of children's networks right now.
S4E04 is really the worst in the entire season. It was a pretty heavy brake after the near-immediate meta time jump between S3's finale and S4's abrupt premiere, with a strong hat trick of opening episodes. I almost dropped Korra myself as I had done so just before S2's finale.
Thankfully things pick up from ep 5 onwards, and if you go into the clip show without bias for clip shows in general as I did, you wouldn't feel many bumps all the way to the finale, which was one of the bigger surprises I had seen ever.
>Unless Asami became a legit character in Book 4, I kinda stopped watching Book 4 Balance after episode 4.
Probably late, but nope. She's probably the biggest individual disappointment in the whole show. If Korra was a man people would've cried foul at her for being a cliche or sexist stereotype. I appreciate that the relationship happened because when it comes to bisexuality, any nonvillainous representation at all is better than nothing. But Bryke had three seasons to give Asami a character beyond Token Love Interest who occasionally kicks butt to prove she's not entirely useless, but is still ultimately redundant, and they didn't. The well of canon is so dry that a lot of her likeability comes from fanon. It should not have been this hard.
And being a bisexual Asian female myself, it infuriates me when I see Korrasami fans so quick to play the homophobia card at any criticism of the pairing whatsoever (it's a super popular ship and it's canon, no need to be so goddamn insecure) when my real issue with it is that Asami is so bland it's kind of insulting. Korra getting with another girl character? Wonderful! But said girlfriend should be more than just a Token Love Interest. You might laugh, but I would've personally had no problem if Korra ended up with Opal, or even Eska or Lin. It's not like their romance would've been that much less developed, not with Nick breathing down the show's neck. Plus they have the benefit of actual personalities. It'll be nice if the sequel comics turn Asami into something more than just Korra's waifu, but chances are the damage has already been done and she'll forever be defined by her relationship with Korra rather than any qualities of her own, good or bad.
>But Bryke had three seasons to give Asami a character beyond Token Love Interest who occasionally kicks butt
...and spends a significant amount of her personal time struggling to maintain a business in the STEM field with very little support from anyone.
She makes missteps along the way, but she has her own goals and her own story going on independent of the hero. I'm not sure exactly what the people who bitch about Asami wanted from her. Did they want the show to be about Asami instead of being about Korra?
Not that poster but I would like to have Asami feel like a main character rather than a poor man's Suki who hung around in the background. The Super Mako Bros. had subplot on top of subplot in the Books and even hijacked Asami's table scraps.
Or maybe have Korra care about Asami's struggle to maintain a business in the STEM field and not not offer her support. Maybe have Asami's words mean something to Korra on screen. Maybe not showing Asami snap at Korra at the Reunion get together. Maybe not using the fact that Asami's father died as a jumping board for the spirit world vacation while Republic City is in ruins thanks to Korra wanting to stop Kuvira there and how the Earth Kingdom is without its iron hand holding it together. That the spirits don't care about humanity except for the fish at the North yet its a good thing they are freeloading and now have another door to come in through. That the Red Lotus are apparently still a thing and that their more prolific member can and has been readily communicating with them in the past unless you "take him out." That the problems from Book 1 still exist yet it is now through an autocratic system. That Korra progressed, regressed, progressed, regressed, and then spun around in a circle and that's how she ended.
Okay that got into Korra problems rather than Asami ones.
But things get swept under a rug too often in LoK or problems are presented as an "it's fine" thing. Or people who are wrong are presented as right and things just happen for the sake of happening. It's a character and anything can happen. But that doesn't mean anything should happen.
In the end it's all treated as implicit background fluff. She's a very passive figure, and her only real role in the plot is to play love interest to Mako or emotional support and yep, love interest to Korra. And her character arc is basically revolved in the span of Book 1. Past that she's pretty static. Whereas Mako had his subplot as a policeman and then bodyguard to Wu, and Bolin has his subplot as an athlete, actor, lavabending, and soldier in Kuvira's army. They might not have been well written, but at least the characters had agency and development and were proactive. Varrick basically ended up stealing her spotlight as the resident normal with tech expertise talent because she didn't have enough to differentiate herself.
As for stuff she could've done, I dunno, maybe a subplot about her rounding up remnant Equalists or converting them, some insight into nonbender politics so the Equalists are less of a strawman, her father becoming one of the recipients of Airbending in Book 3 and how the two of them come to terms with that, her being Kuvira supporters with Bolin and initially developing tech for her army, her being one of the early anti-Kuvira rebels and secretly providing them with technology to fight back after seeing what happened with her own father, so on. It doesn't have to take away from Korra's own story. Mako or Bolin might lose something, but they have material to spare.
>And her character arc is basically revolved in the span of Book 1
Really? Because I thought she had much more going on in Book 2 than Book 1.
I would agree on that, since it was less "Asami helping some new friends when she finds out her dad was a massive criminal" versus "Asami is trying desperately to keep her company afloat and looking for new business partners."
Granted, some decent sized bits of importance in those story lines were swallowed up by the Water Tribe Civil War and later all the Dark Avatar stuff.
She would have if not for the writers feeling that Mako and Bolin were to take center stage of Asami's plot. Mako is the one who ends up risking everything with the sting operation trying desperately to help Asami while she wallows around. Bolin's plots flourished as they tied into the civil war. Asami is responsible for bringing back the love triangle, that's her contribution.
Oh, I see, you don't consider plot to be taking part in the story, you consider plot to be goals accomplished and items checked off the agenda.
Asami was passive in her own story. The beats of action are focused on Mako and the story line segued from Bolin feeling down about everything to Bolin saving the day to Korra returning to Mako being released and congratulated for being right.
While during all this Asami has Bolin relay that she didn't want to see Mako because she is reminded about her father. When Mako is arrested she looks confused and upset but then we cut to the mover and she is there talking about how good it all is and stuff. Bolin acts sad and Asami seems to have no idea why. He even tells her that he wishes Mako was here to see the mover.
When they leave to go outside she then asks Bolin what is wrong. Despite already being told and despite being witness to the wrongness. Bolin goes into detail and Asami just says that things have changed so much since we first met, then asks him to come back to see the show.
This doesn't give us much if anything on Asami's perspective on recent events. We still don't know whether she believes that Mako was leading her on or not. And then she flies the plane and sits out everything else afterward and doesn't show up again except for a throwaway line in Katara's healing hut.
I find Asami to be a fascinating curiosity and that some of her vagueness and just not being very present until later in the series and even then her being hard to place when not orbiting Korra to stem from the dropping out of her heel turn reveal "I was only trying to get close to the Avatar for the Equalist."
Then the Double Back when her father or Amon aims kill Korra. Regardless of the relationship stuff I think a bunch of the gaps that we have with her character stem from that removed piece of story arc and the rebuilding of trust afterwards.
I mean I can feel some of the gaps that should have her speaking more about what happened and attempting to make amends. But I guess that is one of the problems with the way production was run.
>Asami was passive in her own story
This. Technically she's given something to do that's really interesting on paper, but the execution of it renders her a secondary character in what should've been her own story. Mako ends up being the one with the lion's share of narrative agency, while Asami technically Does Stuff so nobody can say she's a useless damsel but is a receptive figure from a story perspective. Any opportunities for development she may have undergone, like signing away her company to Varrick, happens offscreen where we have to infer secondhand how she might've actually felt then.
That's what I mean when I say that a lot of Asami's popularity comes from people projecting onto her. We get to see Mako and Bolin, even when they're being incompetent fuckups, develop on screen, warts and all. Asami could have gotten a crapload more stuff done than everyone else combined, but if it's treated like everything else they do with her i.e. consigned to the background while she remains a mostly passive figure in front of the camera, she'd still be the same likeably bland vessel, convenient for whatever more interesting headcanons fans want to foist onto her.
I kinda think if Varrick wasn't the runway success he was, Asami would've had a lot more room to grow. For example if she was serving in Kuvira's army or providing her with technology alongside Bolin it would make him look less like he's holding the idiot ball. Putting her in Zhu Li's place would've made a really interesting dynamic with Korra to frame their romance around too.
Books 4 and 3 and 2 were being worked on at the same time in terms of writing. They were making Book 4 so Bolin and Varrick heavy despite not yet knowing that Varrick would be the only nice thing people would walk away from in Book 2.
Asami's involvement probably had 5 or so minutes in the writers' room discussion before they moved onto other things. Pretty much every audience idea I've come across gives her agency, depth, screen time, and some even let her show her feelings towards Korra without coming across as weird and disjointed.
Still makes her an interesting item. Asami became Korra's confidant which lead into Asami developing feelings that lead toward Korra moving towards a serious relationship in the end. Heck the pairing had so much interest by the crew and the fans I think it just started happening and they just went with it . I am looking forward to see how the comics continue things.
Though it also ends with some coming up with the idea that she's actually a behind the scenes mastermind. Owns the most powerful company in the world only made bigger by her partner being arrested and all the assets going to her. The go to person by the city to rebuild it. Shaped the Airbenders into the force they are by designing their uniforms. And the cap to it all, in a relationship with the Avatar.
Be funny if that part comes that she has some massive board laying out all the progress she's made.
It is interesting, yes. But that's all it is. Something for fanfic and fanart to explore since the actual series never touched on it besides one letter that is debatable.
Do you tell your friends and family your deep, dark, and terrible secrets? Or some shrink/anonymous imageboard?
Also watch the MIR Facebook video that shows behind the scenes info. The crew was not fond of Korra at all. And look for the posts made by the middle echelon of those who worked on the show who were unaware of such a thing being a thing.
And the fans should NEVER dictate art. Fans can dictate a product/service as that is something you are trying to sell. But the artist should put forth what they envision and given how much time they dedicated to Mako it doesn't sell me their interest in Asami.
The uniforms of the Air Nation do not shape them. Tenzin shaped them. Bumi. And Jinora, more than likely. The biggest contributor was Korra who endangered their lives in the first place by leaving the portals open thinking something good would happen. And who endangered their lives again so she could eventually start on the road to compassion since she never had that before apparently.
Also Future Industries was located, based, and operated out of RC. The place that is now in ruins and even more overrun by potential small bombs should you decide to shoot them with lightning and since the Red Lotus are still out there given the conversation at the end of Book 3 which didn't factor in at all in Book 4 then that doesn't bode well for anyone who still wants to live in that part of the URN.
Comics are going to go into that which is kinda the whole lead up in Book Four, no actual relationship but just attraction and then the lead in. Which I'm okay with. I'd liked to have seen them deal with that a bit longer but I don't see that it actually occurred to one that they were attracted to the other till the end of Book 3 and then the other was in no state to actually communicate or reciprocate.
MIR had number of problems with Korra in part they had to be watched over or they would keep drawing her too thin and missing some of her bulk.
They went back and retouched the hug in the clip episode because they had done it again leaving part of Korra's torso out and had a odd gap when she hugged Asami (they also added a few more intimate details)
Though other artists on the crew and the writers saw they had something pretty early on. It was just the stigma "you can't show same sex attraction of a kids show." Which lead to them not moving anywhere with it till very late in the game and executive meddling made it a "why the hell not" kinda bet.
Maybe the Nick News Special on the subject of homosexuality was an offhand show of support, who knows.
The Spirit Portals being opened is the only reason the Air Bending Nation revived and "balanced" else it would have died off in another couple of generations or until some other Avatar opened the portals. Spirits are fine and don't really give a damn unless people go at them all pissed off and shit, just like normal people. I'd like to see a more integrated society as things go maybe spirit vendors in the market.
Red Lotus is toast as that was why Kuvira was given the job of securing the Earth Kingdom and was at it for four years
Just read somewhere that Asami was considered for one of the people who would gain bending abilities. Damn, I wish they would've gone with that. Give her something beyond the same old thunder fist.
Always the comics since shes now spending a bit of time in the Spirit World. But I can see how that would have been "too much" in a way. Accomplished Driver, Pilot, Mechanical Engineer and Industrialist. Feels akin to giving Tony Stark Superpowers beyond what he has already built. One of the reasons I never really cared for Extremis connected nonsense in those comics.
Sure, give the only full-time nonbender the ability to bend. With the trend of things it really hits home that the initial train of though that Amon had was right: benders are a menace. Amon should know, he was one.
Being an accomplished driver and pilot could just fall as a "riding" ability but recall that Mako learned to do amazing stunts and handle an airship in the span of time he dated Asami. Or he was always capable of such things. Who's to say?
If anything the brothers are the ones who are "too much."
Mako - former athlete, former beat cop, detective, accomplished enough to be bodyguard to a former future king, capable of fighting super terrorists, dated the Avatar, dated the Sato heir, can lightning bend as easily as blinking, can resist moonless psychic bloodbending enough to produce a taser, can fire jet many stories high, adept enough at concentrated bending to destroy a power core of unlimited energy without killing everyone in the vicinity.
Bolin - former athlete, former mover star who is more well known than the Avatar, was nearly betrothed to the ice princess now part Chief of the Northern Water Tribe, former high trusted official in the Great Uniter's army, accomplished lavabender - an extremely rare ability - who was capable of countering a super terrorist five minutes after awakening his ability, dating a Beifong, super best friends with a super genius.
Asami gets leftovers.
And the comic artist they got for the Dark Horse run has Korra offmodel and cutesy.
Asami was a hard nut to find a place for, that an the thinner budget Nick allowed meant not as many writers at the table figuring things out coupled with the stigma that sidelined that book 4 plot being implemented earlier.
Eh I don't see it as that bad, likely it'll look better as it gets inked and such. Her head looks small because they made her hair a bit more shaggy. Overall its better than one would expect otherwise. Shame its on the back burner till the Avatar stuff finishes next year.
For such a thin budget they sure abused the heck out of CGI which is just as costly to use. Plus not having as many writers would mean your original vision wouldn't be revised so much. So they never really had a place for Asami beyond wanting to keep her on because they liked her.
There is no stigma against friendship. There is no stigma against a woman connecting on an emotional or spiritual level with another woman. There is no stigma against a woman helping another woman onscreen and with actual evidence to show that the receiver cares about the other.
>which is just as costly to use.
CGI is considerably cheaper than traditional animation. That's why it's replacing traditional animation in so many scenarios despite looking worse in most situations.
>CGI is considerably cheaper than traditional animation.
Could you explain why, maybe?
Because it takes fewer people and less time to do it, and it takes less skill to make "passable" CGI animation than it does to make traditional animation at the level of something like Avatar.
I would argue that Korra had better than "passable" and I'm reasonably certain that even if you're not paying in man-hours, you're paying in something else. The budget did take a nasty hit during the show, we know that for sure because of the clip episode, but Avatar/Korra has always had a pretty decent production budget...not as much as it deserves, sure, but the Avatar franchise has always had it a bit shit over at Nick.
I think the reason for less writers, initially, was that Korra was supposed to end at Book 1 (again, initially.) Then book 2 came along and Mike and Bryan hammered that out, but book 3 and 4 were concurrently produced and intertwined a whole lot more than the first two did, which meant more writers.
>I would argue that Korra had better than "passable" and I'm reasonably certain that even if you're not paying in man-hours, you're paying in something else. The budget did take a nasty hit during the show, we know that for sure because of the clip episode, but Avatar/Korra has always had a pretty decent production budget...not as much as it deserves, sure, but the Avatar franchise has always had it a bit shit over at Nick.
Even good CGI tends to cost less than traditional animation. They might be getting a discount if keyframing and storyboarding's being done in Japan because traditional animation is cheaper in Japan since they don't have the same union protections over there (though regardless of where keyframing is done, inbetweening is generally done in Korea, where it's cheapest--it's relatively rare to have keyframing and storyboarding done in Korea for an American or Japanese production though).